andy1 "those who question the science need to try and formulate their claims in scientific format submitted to scientific journals."

No they do not - you can be skeptical without having to come up with your own answers, it's a cop out by scientists who dislike being questioned.

Scientists, like politicians, priests and coffee baristas, are good and bad.

Posturing that all scientists are good, therefore anything a scientists says, must be true is laughable, they might believe it but that doesn't make it correct.

I can be skeptical of people divining water using a forked stick, without having to produce my own method of finding water underground .. correct?

Andy1 .. are you skeptical of water diviners? Or do you prescribe to your own standards here and believe they can find water with a forked stick because you can't work out any other way to do it? (Dick Smith once funded trials of water diviners, it was hilarious, for the skeptics, as AGW is now)

"Everyone would hope that global warming/climate change is not taking place, not least climate scientists .. etc"

Are you serious? You don't want the climate to change .. well that explains a lot about you and climate scientists, you do realize it is natural don't you? (possibly beneficial)

So in this day and age, here we have someone claiming to be a scientist who does not like the climate changing, you need to get over that. I don't like tectonic plate movement, but have learned to live with it .. therapy helped.

The question is whether man is adding to it, of course we are with land clearing, the big issue that the government and everyone go on about is whether man made CO2 is "dangerously" adding to it.

The government solution is, Australia MUST be taxed, some people here, demand it!

Like a fish riding a bicycle, this Labor Government will take control of climate.

But I guess if you don't want the climate to change at all .. everything is a problem.

I am almost speechless at this admission.

The greatest threats to global climate are women and THEIR children plus SimCity Governments addicted to Immigration & Low Interest rates as CHEATS to eternally GROW ECONOMIES & win SimCity games without any thought or effort.

The fact that climate scientists and their models Never mention these issues & in fact pander to the players involved renders them complicit in this INSANITY and renders their statistical models WORTHLESS.

The fact is that people cause Climate change and economic growth multiplies the effect ( eg 4WD vehicles politically favoured over green cars). Governments espousing larger populations for economic GROWTH AND imposing Carbon Taxes are rank amateurs at best and most likely totally insane at worst.

Everytime I see Wayne Swan on TV espousing these contradictory views i cringe and think: "Who the F let him out".

All the others like Gillard and Albanese are just flat out proponents of Class war - of making the poor pay for the elite lifestyles (eg free solar panels) of the rich, beaten on by the false premises of climate modelling.

In this RPG is totally correct. And I cannot understand how otherwise intelligent citizens continue to put up with Labor and its adolescent SimCity obsessiveness. These Bastards are ruining our lives. They are not growing a Nation but a climatic disaster while pretending to take affirmative actions and laughing all the way to the World bank..

KAEP,
I'm blowed if I know why you just beat up on Labor when the major parties, and even the Greens, are more or less the same in their populist agendas.
But I agree with the thrust of what you say, I think; indeed I've been hammering away at this theme for ages.
Scientists are fobbing the evidence and what's really needed in backing fix-it approaches to AGW and environmental problems generally.
We are where we are because of consumerism and the endless growth paradigm. Scientists are backing a plan to fix the problem with new markets and more consumption, and production and development spell resource depletion and carbon emissions no matter how green the new technologies.
The scientific community must know that the only way to effectively address the problems of (energy) consumption, depletion and emissions is to "cut" consumption (that is, "shrink") and ultimately to husband it. Science is not going to come up with a green pill that will allow us to go on expanding and drawing a profit indefinitely.
It's the system that has to change; it can't be fixed because it has to grow.
Humans are the problem because they are too many and consume too much. It's as simple as that. We have to change from a high-on the-hog growth paradigm to husbandry. That and capitalism are non sequitur and it's about time the scientists cane clean and distanced themselves from politics.

Squeers

>>> and it's about time the scientists cane (sic) clean and distanced themselves from politics. <<<

Compared to the involvement of big business in politics, scientific influence remains paltry.

Climatologists, geologists, paleontologists, marine biologists and many, many more continue to be ignored or told their science is "crap".

Ammonite,
I should have said the "scientific spokespersons" (like bloody Flannery!) should "come clean" and distance themselves from populist politics. Scientists are also dependent upon the growth paradigm for funding, nevertheless their spokespeople ought to acknowledge their responsibility to say it how it is; neither population growth nor western living standards are sustainable, and green technologies will not change that.

Squeers

The paradigm shift required to a sustainable human society is so great as to be a threat to the ideologies of many - from capitalists through to communists.

I find the Andrew Bolts more dishonest than the Flannerys - but each to their own interpretation of these public figures. The problem is that erudite scientists are rare and require well-informed and educated journalists and government advisors - not holding my breath for that eventuality given the vested interests of the status quo.

We stand at the crossroads.

Old native American proverb (paraphrased):

"We do not inherit our world from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children".