Jim AJ Is an EX Believer I believe :-)

It seems the creationists have gone quiet all of a sudden :-( Awwwww

you would think they would relish the chance to explain their beliefs to us godless heathens who are seeking the truth and asking questions.

It would seem to me their faith is very much based on faith and faith alone and that asking questions is not something they are keen on.

@Dug "Jim AJ Is an EX Believer I believe :-) "

Yeah I got that thanks :-) You don't think I'd be asking a Christian to provide an honest explanation of their beliefs do you?

If that Evonne Paddison woman who runs ACCESS ministries is any example, it's clear they'll tell you one thing to your face while really believing the complete opposite.

For example, in public denying that SRI is proselytazing (haha!), whilst *actually* believing SRI is a "God-given open door to children" to fulfill their "Need to go and make disciples."

Squeers, you are way too droll. We may be doing ok, but there are many people for whom life is not all that grand, and it can be a comfort for these at least to believe there may be something better to hope for in the hereafter.

Of course, in earlier times this could have been "used" to keep the lower classes emptying the dunny cans, and accepting their "earthly" pain. This may also apply today, but it is now more likely to be states and administrators who do the repressing, rather than any church - and it is the church which provides the "balm".

To hold a belief, or trust, in any form of hereafter, I think it prerequisite to hold a belief in a God or supreme deity. May be wrong, but don't see how it can be otherwise.

As for atheists (and the fence-sitting agnostics) some may hold their a view as a worldly choice, of a "liberated" mind, for others it may be simply an exercise of "freedom" - so as not to be bound to do the right thing, as long as one stays within man's law (or at least not get caught). The "not being caught" limitation on personal freedoms has of course not worked all that well - else we probably wouldn't have GFC's or Storm Financial's etc.

We know that belief in a hereafter is Not a prerequisite for living a good life, and I'm sure there are many non-believers who lead fantastically good lives. Still, for many people there is a need "to belong", to be part of a similarly minded group, for the assurance this provides.

Irrespective of means, the supreme objective must always be "universal adherence to a set of commonly held moral and ethical values". Achievement of this does Not require a common "faith", or any particular belief system, just a high set of standards.

I can only reiterate - when any belief system places itself above, or aside from, universal morality, on pretext of "special place", it can only be to the detriment of the common good.

Oh dear, Pericles, we are undone! Saltpetre has divined that we are one and the same---each the other's sock puppet!

Saltpetre

I am happy to know that there are sincerely religious people who do empathize with and are accepting of others - irrespective of what religious beliefs they may or may not hold.

Unfortunately, you are not among those people. Your comments that people become atheists "so as not to be bound to do the right thing, as long as one stays within man's law (or at least not get caught)", is one of the silliest and spurious of claims. I do not believe in an all watching all powerful deity - I manage to behave decently and fairly to all people - even to you after your highly insulting comments.

Your attempts to cast all non-religious as somehow less than religious is indicative of a closed mind - I suggest the the god in which you believe would not be very pleased by your behaviour.

Clearly a watchful deity is not keeping you from casting stones at others. Do you think you won't "get caught"?

Well, Squeers, you can't really blame Saltpetre...

>>Oh dear, Pericles, we are undone! Saltpetre has divined that we are one and the same---each the other's sock puppet!<<

...no-one has actually seen us together in the same room, have they?

Saltpetre, we do agree on many aspects.

>>...it can be a comfort for these at least to believe there may be something better to hope for in the hereafter<<

Absolutely. I suspect this is the single most compelling reason why some people become "religious". They have, as we all do, a basic incomprehension of the "why" of our existence. Faced with this unsolvable mystery, they choose to go along with the idea that there is some form of father figure looking after them.

If it floats their boat, and they don't use it to oppress others, it's a relatively harmless process.

>>To hold a belief, or trust, in any form of hereafter, I think it prerequisite to hold a belief in a God or supreme deity.<<

Absolutely. Though it doesn't actually alter the reality that there is no such thing as a "hereafter". There is only a "here". And sometimes, you have to admit, a belief in a "hereafter" can cause people to do unspeakable things, here.

>>As for atheists... some may hold their a view as a worldly choice...<<

Absolutely. Although I did detect something of a sneer in all those quotation marks - a "liberated" mind, an exercise of "freedom" etc.

We have the right to choose not to believe. That means only that we reject the notion of a supernatural father figure. Personally, my choice revolved around the complete absence of a need for reassurance.

Being - unlike so many previous generations - at least cognizant of the immenseness of the universe, I feel privileged to be here at all. I don't need to search for a reason.

We agree on this, too: when religion is used as a stick to beat people with, it can only be bad.

Bad for religion, as well as bad for people.