@JJ said "I don't know about you, but I think if I fell ill, I'd be relying on scientifically developed medicine"

@Shockadelic said :"You mean the ones the superbugs are now resistant to?"

Ah yes, I see your point... Some viruses have developed resistance to antibiotics, therefore the practice of oil-rubbing and chanting is demonstrably efficacious at curing all diseases which is why you've never visited a doctor.

Well done clever clogs! I suppose can't really argue with logic such as yours... (for one reason or another).

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@JJ Said: "Actually, instead of teaching the kiddies CPR and all that rubbish at primary school, perhaps we should just instruct them in...."

@Shockadelic said "how to "win" debates with pathetic sarcasm?"

Yes, apparently. Depends on who you're debating with, I guess, but in your case it's certainly a viable option.

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@Shockadelic said "You still haven't explained how you could comprehend "Joan of Arc" without *any* knowledge of Christianity."

Why do you keep asking me to explain something that you KNOW is "utterly indecipherable" to me?! That's just being cruel. ;-)

Or, did you not really mean what you originally said about the whole of western civilization being "utterly indecipherabe" if you don't attend SRI as a kiddy, and are now simply being obstinate instead of decently admitting your hyberbolic gaffe?

Of course, I COULD get into a lengthy discussion with you about the poor old saint if you really wanted, but you don't REALLY want me to do you, surely? That would disprove your point that religious instruction is necessary for children to understand history, since I didn't get any.

Joan of Arc explained:

A young woman suffered a mental illness probably schizophrenia and saw delusional visions. Because of the superstitious nature of the times she was able to gather followers and inspire those who believed she had magical powers.

She led the army to several important victories during a long period of wars and battles.

She was captured and burned to death by her enemies, who were equally superstitious.

Later some people in another country all together said she had magical powers because it suited their political and financial needs at the time.

=-=-=-=-=-
Any other magic stories you need translated into understandable language ?

Interesting angle, Saltpetre.

>>...there is also the hope that one may be able to get some support in one's worthwhile endeavours from the "beyond". Wishful thinking? Probably. But, where's the hurt?<<

That's the logic I hear from people who do Lotto every week.

And face it, to the poor it can be very hurtful indeed, when they get nothing in return except the warm feeling of participation.

>>No God... No-one to seek help from...<<

That also applies to booze. You can "seek help" from the bottle, but you won't actually find any. The journey can be kinda fun, though, which is probably why there are so many religious people as well as drinkers. It's the sensory/emotional hit that keeps them going back.

>>...no chance of any interceding if mankind goes that one step too far in meddling with the biosphere.<<

Interceding using... earthquakes, floods, tsunamis perhaps? That's comforting. We don't have to blame APG after all.

>>No question about how we came to be, or the universe, or what may lie ahead. We just exist. Alone in the void?... a desperate alone-ness<<

That's the nub, isn't it. The individual's fear of being alone, which is deeply rooted in our psyche.

Odd, when there are more than six billion of us on this planet, that anyone would feel it necessary to invent an imaginary friend as well.

>>...it can only be destructive, or at best self-serving, for any group to lay claim to some special place in some divinical plan<<

I'd go a step further, and propose that it is the very suggestion that there is some kind of "divinical plan" in the first place, that has caused the problem between religions.

None of this "divinical plan" business means squat to an atheist, by the way. I can't speak for others, but I sincerely think everyone would be better of, mentally and emotionally, if we could find a way to rely upon ourselves and each other, instead of an imaginary spirit in the sky.

It's a challenge at first, having to think for yourself. But you get used to it.

There’s been some interesting points made about the ridiculousness of the Noah’s ark story here and having been someone who has had a lot of experience with creationists and even having been one myself once before, I’ll let you in on some of the explanations that I don’t think the creationists here will be willing to admit as even they know just how utterly insane they will sound to rational people.

In regards to harmful bacteria, creationists believe that it spontaneously appeared as the result of two naked adolescents eating the wrong fruit in a garden with a talking legged snake (snakes must’ve had legs before the eating of the forbidden fruit, otherwise what kind of a punishment would ‘ye shall crawl on your belly for the rest of your days’ be).

So, anyway, Noah wouldn’t have had to keep petri dishes with him - at least not for the harmful bacteria - as it simply would have spontaneously re-appeared after the waters subsided due our sin.

Think that’s crazy? It’s better!

Noah wouldn’t have needed a good filing system, not for bacteria or for the millions of multi-celled species that currently inhabit the Earth, because of a little thing they call “super-evolution”.

You see, Noah would have only needed two single-celled life forms just as he would have only needed two snakes, because these “two of each kind” (try getting a creationist to actually define “kind” too) super-evolved into all the different variations of the “kinds” we see today.

For example, all the species of snake we see today - over the space of hundreds of years (at a rate of thousands of times faster than the real evolution they think is impossible) - “super-evolved” into all the varieties you see today.

So there’s no point in bringing to their attention the lack of space on the ark - they think they already have it explained - you need to point out to them the impossibility of super-evolution.

By the way, if the flood was just a flattening of the land, then what was all the rain for?

Ugh!

I meant to say, “It gets better”.

But while I’m here, I may as well point out to any creationists reading that I realise that (regardless of how impossibly fast you may believe that “kinds” can “super-evolve” into variations of that “kind”) you don’t believe that “kinds” can evolve into other “kinds”. But try finding a mechanism that prevents this.

You can’t and that’s the crux of the matter.

Oh and Saltpetre, our beliefs inform our actions and so it is important that we all ensure that we have as many true beliefs and as few false ones as possible.

@AJ Philips,

Thanks for that. As you sound like an expert on the matter, could I press you for some answers to more questions about the the flood story...

1. God say's he's drowning nearly ALL the men, women, children, infants (and animals!) in the world because everyone except one man (Noah) is evil. So why did he also save Noah's EVIL sons and wives for the Earth reboot? Couldn't he have just killed everyone, and created another innocent man and women from dust and a rib, like last time?

3. Why does an omnimax god need a mnemonic device such as a rainbow to remind him not to commit genocide again by accident?