Shockadelic, Wednesday, 4 May 2011 6:34:30 PM

SRI/E is not entirely voluntary, though. There are many situations where kids disadvantaged or are made to feel bad for 'opting out' or 'being opted out'.

Yes, many "parents allowing their children into these classes .. probably [give] the same thing at home."

There are probably many non-religious parents "allowing their children into these classes" because
* they see them as potentially innocuous expeditions in "values"
* they don't want their kids be seen to be different
* they don't get round to opting out

"We learn about [Roman & Greek history] because, like Christianity, our civilisation's history would be utterly indecipherable without that knowledge."

"utterly indecipherable"?? You protest too much.
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"Using bible stories to convey mores and norms of acceptable behaviour ... places these lessons more effectively within the context of the real world."
@ Saltpetre

You reckon?

"Offering voluntary lessons in schools in the difference between good and evil can only be beneficial" = a false dichotomy; a black & white mis-representation of the often greyness of situations. Christian focus on evil is over-the-top. The crucifix is evil.
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"But if not" ... connecting the importance of the Bible and western history will have been proved.
@ Nick_, Wednesday, 4 May 2011 11:12:56 AM

Nope. Not a satisfactory argument.
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Doctor Scott, Wed 4 May 11:29:40 AM - Tradition is not a good reason for teaching ill-defined so-called "Christian values". Just teach the values: honesty, integrity, lawfulness (something Jesus didn't always do), logic, science, truth & its nuances (such as why the Bible might not be)
.

cont'd...

@shockadelic "Why not? Religion is a part of life."

1. I think you'll actually find that most secularists DO want religion to be taught in school... COMPARATIVE religion, not the indoctrination in one sect or another that the zealots such as ACCESS, ACL, et al are pursuing.

2. There is more than one religion that is part of "life" (in general). I doubt you're in favour of any religion other than your own being taught. Am I wrong?? Or do you in fact want diferent groups of children to be taught to actually believe in CONTRADICTORY mythologies at school? How divisive and confusing is that!

3. We shouldn't be feeding young children's minds with ables at school, and telling them they're true. Seriously. Prayers and miracles and resurrection and talking shrubberies and magical fish and creating Eve from a rib!? Oh just grow up you people!!

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@shockadelic "The militants don't ask why sport or sex information or cooking classes or music are taught in schools. Surely these are life skills or pastimes that could also just as easily be taught at home (and often are)."

I don't know any militants. Perhaps you could point one out to me and we'll ask them, eh?

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@shockadelic "Is teaching Roman or Greek history "proselytizing"?
No. Teaching children that the Christian god is real and they will go to Hell unless they follow him is proselytizing, though. And that is what is occurring in SRI classes in this country.

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@shockadelic "We learn about them because, like Christianity, our civilisation's history would be utterly indecipherable without that knowledge."

"Utterly indecipherable"?? Oh please! Give me a break hahhaa.

What a complete bunch of crap! For example, I was not indoctrinated into any religious cult, but somehow I seem to be doing just fine understanding my culture and its history, thanks very much. Probably better than you, in fact, since I wasn't taught to _really believe_ one particular fairy tale over another.

I think you'll actually find that most secularists DO want religion to be taught in school... COMPARATIVE religion, not the indoctrination in one sect or another that the zealots such as ACCESS, ACL, et al are pursuing.

I am an atheist and I firmly believe religion should be a compulsory core subject in ALL schools state and private.

Every school and every school child should be taught the basic beliefs and practices of both major religions and belief systems.

they should be given access to leaders and teachers from each and every group so they can openly question and discuss comparative religions, their benefits and their problems.

There should be exams set so we as parents are sure every school and every teacher is teaching this subject openly and honestly.

I would be delighted to see such a religious education introduced into schools and would happily support it being federally funded.

I do not want to support a narrow biased religious point of view being preached at kids as some kind of ultimate truth of the universe.

If people feel so strong about superstition then well, bring up the subject in school. But, to accept a particular faith a person should be 21 or grown up to make that decision. Don't try & brainwash some poor kids who have no concept of it.

Bojanco, your knowledge of what Dr. Cannold wants and believes is suspect because you don't even know she is not male.

I can only add my voice to those above. I don't know any "militant" atheists, or any atheists who object to studying religion objectively. State Schools are no place for religious instruction, but should be a sanctuary from their often rabid parents. It is scandalous that the people's government is sectarian. As for Christianity per se; Jesus was a radical. Christianity today is a commodity, the paunch of politics. Jesus would disavow any association.