Jimmy Jones I have no idea who you are but I'm giving you a standing ovation. Brilliant comment. Thank you.

And people wonder why the author uses the term "militant".

Within seconds of the article being published there's dozens of bitchy, rude, arrogant, mean, flippant knee-jerk broken record comments from the usual trolls.

How can any subject that's *voluntary* be oppressive or abusive?
If parents are allowing their children into these classes, they probably get the same thing at home.

"But why *in* school?", demand the trolls.
Why not?
Religion is a part of life.

The militants don't ask why sport or sex information or cooking classes or music are taught in schools.

Surely these are life skills or pastimes that could also just as easily be taught at home (and often are).

Is teaching Roman or Greek history "proselytizing"?
Is this any less practical in real life?
We learn about them because, like Christianity, our civilisation's history would be utterly indecipherable without that knowledge.

My parents opted out because they were Jehovah's Witnesses.
I got more than my share of home instruction in their doctrines.
I wish I'd actually been allowed to attend, as I may have seen Christianity from another perspective.

And my class time wasn't "wasted".
I caught up on homework.

Dear Sir/Madam,

Dr Cannold's assault on chaplaincy and his call to "kick religious education volunteers and chaplains out of public schools" (The Age)is nothing but cheap opportunism born out of his moment in the spotlight – Australian Humanist for 2011.

He wants religious volunteers and chaplains, who bring hope and purpose to the challenges that many students face, to be silenced while those whose faith is in the secular - the material world - remain free to pedal their faith in 'the human spirit', reason, chance and social contracts.

The high priests of 'secularism' in schools, academia, entertainment, media and politics preach and advocate a 'religion' - a hybrid of humanism, naturalism, rationalism, pluralism, etc. Whether by intention or blindness to their own incoherence, they are the 'chaplains' and 'volunteers' of a worldview that stands in the place of other religions.

As the 'evangelist' of this religion, the (Ir)Rev Cannold, would have us believe that his faith, that offers only chance and reason as bases for hope, is somehow reassuring for children in the face of contemporary challenges.

Leslie would do well to apply his reason to an overwhelming statistic - 98% of principals in public schools declare chaplaincy worth retaining.

Bojanco

God Almighty ! Ten pages on the subject on the first day ? That borders on insane ! It clearly shows that superstition is far more prevalent than we'd like to believe.

@Shockadelic "And people wonder why the author uses the term "militant". Within seconds of the article being published there's dozens of bitchy, rude, arrogant, mean, flippant knee-jerk broken record comments from the usual trolls."

Are you so naive to believe that Mr Ward's original article (not least his continued and inappropriate use of the word "militant") is anything but bitchy, rude, arrogant, mean, and flippant and troll-like? Or do you have such blinkered vision and bias that you genuinely can't even see that?

I even gave an example in my previous post of the outright LIES that the author of this article espouses, regarding his "militant atheists" who are "hell-bent" on controlling others children. Do you not see this disingenuity in the article, or are you just pretending not to notice??

Sure the responses have been sharp, but completely warranted given the egregious attacks leveled by the author of his pile of invective and spittle.

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@Shockadelic "How can any subject that's *voluntary* be oppressive or abusive?
If parents are allowing their children into these classes, they probably get the same thing at home."

If they're getting the same thing at home, then why waste school time with it?

Anyway, you will find plenty of reasons why "opt-out" religious indoctrination is oppressive, ESPECIALLY for impressionable children. For example...
1. Students who don't participate are made to feel like pariahs, and there is a fair amount of coercion going on to "fit in", no matter what.
2. Despite Mr Wards lies about children who opt out being given directed learning, this is NOT THE CASE. Children of parents who don't want their children taught fairy tales as though they are true are forced to DO NOTHING.
3. The ACL and other religious activist groups have even gone out of their way to ensure that substitute classes in ethics are not available to children who don't receive religious instruction during valuable school time.
4. Ask me if you want more examples

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@Shockadelic "But why *in* school?", demand the trolls."

The "Trolls"? Tsk tsk. Who's doing the trolling now, troll?

Shockadelic: More sophist tape-loopery. This is really scraping the bottom of the barrel, not only repeating the same trite, ad nauseam nonsense arguments, but adding "troll" to the accusation of militancy.

One thing that is apparent is that your voice and the voices of those in your camp are unlikely to actually require their children to be taught "christian values" officially in school hours. Your children almost certainly are already being tortured and deprived of their childhoods by being subjected to church and sunday school.

There isn't a single honest drop of blood in any of you. The real reason you are so desperate to push this indoctrination agenda is because it is one of the few remaining windows left for you to poison young and vulnerable minds that are otherwise beyond your reach. This is as disgusting as it is evil.

Stop manipulating our children for the sake of your own grubby, selfish, political interests.