We inherited these gifts from God. All good gifts come from above, from the Father of lights. http://atheistlegitimacy.blogspot.com/

Rebecca6,

I too am a Christian, and it hurts me to see conflict in Ireland, with individual groups marching in "celebration" of some past "victory" - partly political, partly some reference to heritage - which maintains and glorifies a "them and us" attitude. Whether because of, or in spite of such attitudes, individuals maintain antagonism towards the "others", and some embark on violence. The retention of these tensions and celebrations is a form of terrorism - keeping people in both groups in fear. Both groups are supposedly "Christian". These "celebrations" are not dissimilar to neo-Nazis celebrating Hitler, or if parts of Europe were to celebrate the pogroms and expulsion of Jews, or Christians celebrating the Crusades.

Too much conflict in the world today is characterised as in the name of religion - conflict from some Islamic groups preaching violence against "non-believers", conflicts in Israel and Palestine over sacred sites and land, and with Koptic Christians caught up in this also. Christians have retaliated and burned mosques, etc, etc.

I am aware of "Christians" who preach that "Allah" is a false god, that Mohamed, Buddha and other non-Christian prophets are false-prophets or "demons" and foot-soldiers of the Devil. Where is love thy neighbour in this?

Some Christian "breakaway" movements teach that theirs is "the only true way" (to heaven), some take the bible so literally they still teach that black and non-pure-white races are sub-human - and given their way would impose eugenics to purify the "human" race.

There are other examples. "Christians" is a broad church, and parts thereof are imperfect and use narrow interpretation of the scriptures to impose what I would call non-Christian values.

As for Creation, believe as you will, but that approach places "Man" in a category above and beyond God's broad and miraculous brush of life on earth. As we are of the same DNA as all other life on earth, and share 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees, this "categorisation" of "Man Apart" is a deviation, denies science, and is a source of some conflict in the world today.

McReal, what is UD?

Downtown Dave,well done and never be discouraged.
Saltpetre, the topic of your article is on Aussie, Christian or Universal values. I therefore entered the discussion based on that. You have neglected to answer my question why the values of the Christian Bible are in the "dark ages" and why it needs to evolve. One who calls himself a Christian is one who (is forgiven) follows Christ's example and chooses to walk according to the written word and Believes in it, creation is just a basic. You have made mention to violence done under the banner of 'religion', but fail to explain the cause - not religion sir, but the heart, of which there is no divide; male female, young or old, dark or light skin, any culture. I agree with you that some religious people use the Bible to justify their actions as wrong as they are, but mostly it is a text out of context. Though it seems to me that you are off topic and want to have a stab at Theology, that is another forum. But for this one - our Australian values have been established by the Christians who founded this country (some good some not),and the Christian laws bought to it by the English invaders; integrated with the immigrants who bought diversities to us that influenced our culture and attitudes in positive ways and broadened what it means to love thy neighbor,the acceptance of the original land owners has cemented in our minds what we value - life in general without definition of differences!We are a great nation and love our culture.If you take the Christian values out of society you may as well go and live in Afghanistan.. take your wife and children and see what life is like without the Christian Bible. Though our morality is on the decline, it is our morals that make us respect one another's rights. I respect your right to voice your opinion and believe what you believe though I have the same rights to disagree with you. Rebecca6

Saltpetre,
sorry meant ID.

Rebecca6,

I can only respond in my own way. By "dark ages" I mean the opposite to "true" enlightenment.

By "enlightenment" I mean the search for values which may be applied universally to the common good.

My intention in addressing this topic has been to relate Christian values to "Universal" values, and to relate these to what I see operating in Oz. Oz is now multicultural, as stated, and is therefore now multi-theistic. To me this means we have to seek universally applicable values if we are going to be able to maintain stability, security, civility and harmony, and this means some give and take on all sides. If Christianity is going to maintain that it must be the foundation and source of all faith, then we have no solution. We all will have to embrace tolerance, and respect for other cultures and religious beliefs - but with an overriding adherence to values we may all share and maintain. This must also be global if there is to be any chance of universal and lasting peace on earth.

I acknowledge the place and role of Christian belief in the development of Oz (as also with a large part of the rest of the developed world), and I believe in the infinite virtue contained in the foundational messages as conveyed by Christ's conduct and teachings, and I try to live by following His example.

I also have to acknowledge the developments achieved in the Muslim world through the teachings of Mohamed - though in recent history I believe his teachings have been corrupted in their application.

I have also to acknowledge all the world's other faiths which embrace similar universal values to our own, but reject any values which would pit man against man.

In my previous post I put forward some examples which I believe represented corruptions of Christianity. These are no better and no worse than those corruptions of the foundational teachings of other faiths demonstrated in so many current, recent and historical conflicts.

I propose to you a universal value: "Am I my brother's keeper? Yes, I am."

Shall we be enlightened? or, Do we think, rightly or wrongly, that we are already enlightened?

And God created "Man" in his own image. As African, Nordic, Inuit, Germanic, Arabic, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Melanesian, Indonesian, Aztec, New Guinean, Aborigine .....

As Adam and Eve had transgressed, and taken a wrong path, "Jehovah" shed light on a better path, and some took heed.

And God sent his Son, Jesus Christ, to Palestine, to be amongst the Jews who had been suppressed by the Romans, who had annexed Egypt.

To the darkness of Arabia came a voice for progress, loving "Allah" and urging Rules and Law and pursuit of knowledge. Mohamed.

In Greece there was philosophy, democracy and literacy, whilst the Romans built roads, bridges and aqueducts, and cities with sewage systems.

In the East a voice came for love and benevolence and the sanctity of life. Buddha.

Still in the East a voice for philosophy and learning. Confucius.

For some others truth lay in the earth, in nature and the cycles of life.

We are "Man" in His image - Inside.

"I" am not more than "He" or "Them".

"We" are not entitled or allowed to force change on "Them" to "Our" image, we may only ask for harmony within the breadth of God's creation of Life. We may only respect and preserve the abundance and profusion of HIS creation, in harmony and absence of conflict, in love and kindness and sharing. To be true to Him.

Brothers all, in the name of peace, and His Will.