Ah yes, the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy.

AJ Philips wrote "Ah yes, the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy."

wiki says(for what its worth):"No true Scotsman is an intentional logical fallacy, an ad hoc attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion. When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim, rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original universal claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it."

WHAT it Should say; Logic and Reason, two different approach to assess any situation one finds themselves. 'Reason' primarily uses past experiences similar to current situation to assess, and 'Logic' seeks to find as much knowledge of current situation ONLY to assess(so why 'science' is called logical field)...and amazingly, yeah true, 'logic' is left brain activity, and 'reason' is right brain activity...

So simple example: How do planes fly?...'Reason' say wings, and Ive seen it...
'Logic' says upper wing surface curved to lower wing flat gives differential wind velocities which produces a net force upwards...

AND they say, in any situation one has to respond to...equal measure of 'logic and reason'(right and left brain both assessing current situation at same time) awareness to it gives one the most information to use to determine action to situation...and we know more information one has available in situation, better their decision making process is...

So I wonder how the above is going to effect the discussion of this topic...

sam

SamSaid,

Reasoning is more like 'formal argument' and critical discussionas a means of discerning truth, as also logic can be.

Statements (like "planes fly [by their] wings") and explanations (like "upper wing surface curved to lower wing flat gives differential wind velocities which produces a net force upwards") are different.

McReal, Not quite there, so let me put this another way...

Current situation: In discussion with another the question 'How do planes fly?' is addressed at you...

So you reply;'wings, and Ive seen it..."

or you reply;'upper wing surface curved to lower wing flat gives differential wind velocities which produces a net force upwards...'

OR you say: 'wings, and Ive seen it...+upper wing surface curved to lower wing flat gives differential wind velocities which produces a net force upwards...'

and yes there is common grounds between both approaches depending on situation and details can be debated among other things, but the third answer is definitely better than the first two which is the point...dont think there is a debate on that in this example context...and so using both sides of the brain together produces better results than one side dominantly...
regards
sam

Well Pericles, if you have “heard it all before”, how come it is taking so long for the facts to percolate through your overly thick cranium?

To start of with, I am an atheist, so that is another assumption which you got wrong.

Christians not only kill other Christians, they lie, cheat, steal, fornicate, and do a lot of other naughty things which their God forbade. But if they do these things, they are not doing what their God instructed them to do.

Muslims are different. When they make war on other people “near to them” to spread their religion, when they “strike terror” into non believers, when they beat their wives, when they marry 11 year old girls, when they kill people who criticize Islam, when they stone women to death for “fornication”, or when they maintain a total social separation from other people, they are doing either exactly what their Prophet instructed them to do, or they are following His example.

That some Muslims choose not to do everything that their Prophet tells them, and may even disagree with some of His policies or his personnel example, does not detract from the fact that this is an evil religion which teaches its adherents to hate and be violent.

A person such as you is supposed to be opposed to such an ideology. But by some process of Doublethink, you refuse to see the self evident truth, because you are so committed to defending minorities, that you never ask yourself if the hostility directed by the people that you despise (people like me) is entirely appropriate when it comes to Muslims.

While all Christians may sin, only a tiny minority of Christians may be termed “the religious right” who are totally intolerant of anyone not a Christian, and such a belief is contrary to their God’s wishes. This is not the case in the Islamic world. The majority of Muslims in most Muslim countries could be termed “fundamentalist” who believe every hatred promoting and misogynist endorsing instruction in the Koran.

You know people, the word 'Christian" was a slang word used to harrass anyone who followed Jesus Christ.the 'real' Christians are kind,giving,serving,not imposing,not judgmental. Don't lump religious people in with them.read about Jesus before you judge what you think he did and did not do.
Values? if we are descendant from animals then it will always be survival of the fittest, this makes school bullying acceptable and rape natural;neglect of the elderly, stealing, deception acceptable.
What is it that changed that?lets see.don't steal, don't kill, obey authority, love one another as you would love yourself,dont gossip, oh the list goes on and where are these values found? In Christians? No! the Bible. If there is no moral standard or measuring rod then we can do what we want because that is the nature of the beast.This is a mans fight against a man because one of you think you know better than the other.Well guess what men, you are all right, people have done atrocious things under the banner of Christianity yet so have those under the banner of atheism. You are no different, you are human, you think you know better, that is why you are on here and you think your logic is better than that that has been established for thousands of years.all I can say is shame on you! remove the moral standard and the measuring rod and the problems we have now will only get worse - those who put money before people;our government, councils,workplaces, utilities, banks even parents - Money is the root of all evil, you cannot serve money and God, the love of money is the beginning of evil. where does it say that? oh that's right.IN THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE.and what does it mean to serve God - love your neighbor as yourself!why are you on here? apply yourself to something that counts - when was the last time you fed the homeless or went into a nursing home to give quality of life? or gave money to someone who was struggling? Stop judging those who do and go do yourself!