@ Senior Victorian, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 12:28:40 PM

I would concur, with some qualification: viz.

* for equality of all before fair equitable law;

* for freedom of speech, association and belief;

and for toleration for peoples beliefs provided they
* do not coerce others to hold those beliefs,
* do not use those beliefs to denigrate others,
* use those beliefs for rational altruism (eg. within the realm of current medical knowledge).

When you have a spare few hours, and are feeling at your most patient, sit down with a friend and try to find out i) what their non-negotiable values are (that's the first few minutes) and ii) where they got them from (that's the rest of the day). Very few of us think about that for ourselves and we certainly don't challenge others, unless it's to make the throw away generalisations that, sadly, often pervade such discussions ("You just think that because you're a Feminist/Green/Christian/work for the ABC/etc").

It's a hard slog, as people peel away the layers that cover where the thought/value/prejudice/etc actually came from in its original form. People will be surprised, and potentially disappointed, as they discover just who and what has shaped their ideas over their lives, and why.

I have had it done to me and have done it with friends over a quiet cuppa (yes, I am exciting company!) and it is an amazing experience.

Then re-read this article with fresh eyes.

Enjoy!

I was enjoying this article until it got to the gay marriage section near the end, where, contrary to earlier thoughts, a determination had been made about one right to autonomy trumping another's (fundamental or actual?)understanding of marriage.

The idea of finding the context of 'where' our own universal compass stems from is as important as to determining the 'why' of why we (and others) would follow it.

"What is Truth?" Is that the best question ever, that seems to have so many answers, yet, for logical consistency, can only have one?

"Who is truth?" Now there's a supplementary question!

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11935#204974

Ammonite, a very clever "half truth" by the author & yourself. While many people/nations/churches/organisations lay claim to these "universal values", they "talk the talk, but don't walk the walk".

A perfect example of this is the RED/green, getup, GAYLP, Socialist Alliance.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8630135369495797236#

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11935#204979

well said Sam.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11935#204980

also correct King Hazza, hopefully one day we will talk you out of the RED/greens.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11935#204982

Runner, there is no end to the capacity for self delusion training, among the RED/green, getup, GAYLP, Socialist Alliance.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11935#204988

Senior Victorian, globalisation has been a continual process of killing patriotism, in favour of the Big Sista, UN, NWO.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11935#204990

Quantumleap, & who taught you that drivel. Closet Communist/atheists who dogmatically preach, "religion is the opiate of the masses", have faith in the gospel according to Karl Marx, idolise the "dear leader".

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8630135369495797236#

http://www.savethemales.ca/160303.html in this one you see they even had these treasonous, criminals infiltrating churches to poison them from within.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/the-covert-comrades-in-the-alp/story-e6frg6zo-1225887087909

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/radical-roots-seep-through-at-the-heart-of-greens-20100726-10sj0.html?skin=text-only

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=5vajlNhSzWYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=mark+aarons+the+family+file&source=bl&ots=_JqnT4mkHv&sig=23tiin36Jjg84b7-Ttuxxp7L3gI&hl=en&ei=jKD0TOiQD8fzcfH_mMcE&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CD0Q6AEwBw#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/do-not-feel-afraid-gaia-is-with-us/story-e6frezz0-1225980594646

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fabian_Society

http://www.mailstar.net/xTrots.html

Are you an atheist or one of Lucifer's misguided fools?

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11935#204991

McReal, every religious & secular "values" system in the world encourages their followers to attack evil doers. Christian, "tolerance" was never supposed to tolerate devil worship or child abuse.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11935#204992

rational-debate, i concur, most of the debate over the last half century or so has been dominated by the Politically Correct Thought Police from the RED/green, getup, GAYLP, Socialist Alliance.

see for yourself.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8630135369495797236#

“In an increasingly globalized and interdependent world, no one community....”

Groan.

This article was brought to by EuroDemolition Inc, proudly betraying our own kind since 1967.

There is no “world”. There are worlds, plural.

The “Australian World” is one of them.
“British World” is another. “European World” is another.
These worlds overlap since they are developed one from the other.

There is no “Global” world.

So our values are also others'? So what? They are expressed in our own ways.

“Mateship” is more male bonding than Good Samaritan.
Other cultures have male bonding too. But they express it in ways we don't and never would.

“so-called Aussie and Christian values... The danger is that they reinforce the discriminatory barriers that exist between 'us' and those defined as 'not us'. The only way to avoid this is to.....”

Not be “us”.

To not identify as a *particular* people.
A right Turks, Koreans, Mexicans and Samoans have.

But not white Australians.

We're not a people. No, they have no culture.
We cannot be distinct and “exclusive”.
We must be everybody and everything (i.e. nobody and nothing).

“there is no longer 'us and them'; it's all 'us' now! We are all in it together”

Sigh.

Being in the “world” together doesn't require the abdication of any people's distinctiveness/particularity.

There are French people and Japanese people and Moroccan people.
There are no World people.

Quantumleap

The self righteous dude on the video shows exactly the corrupt nature of man. Those denying the corrupt nature of man are in total denial. The High Priests of secularism think nothing of killing the unborn. Stalin and Mao certainly demonstrate the fruit of ungodly thinking. I would say that if secularist just stopped at helping the poor they would be rather harmless. Usually however they want to help the poor with other peoples money (usually taxpayers) and push their immoral dogmas on others. You seem very blinded by secular dogma and seem intent on using the ever changing pseudo science to justify your dogma.