< How puny are you? >

Very puny. In fact, very veeerry puuuuuuuuny!!

I’ve been a passionate greenie, environmentalist and sustainabilityist for decades. I was involved with non-government organisations for many years, having been on their committees and served stints as president of three of them, and having been a professional scientist in the field of ecology and environment for more than a decade… and having run for state parliament for the Qld Greens….. oh, and having poured whole lot of passion into debating this stuff on OLO and elsewhere for yonks……and newspaper articles and letters, radio, public talks and guest lectures at uni…blah, blah, blaaaah ..

….. and I feel extreeeemely ineffectual and paaahhyyyuuuuuuuuuuuunnny!!

Sure Valerie, it is good to look at what we can reduce, reuse, recycle and improve efficiency over (RRR&E), but that is such a small part of the total sustainability picture. In fact, in isolation, it is meaningless!!

If we are going to continue to suffer massive expansionism, then all of this stuff is just going to get cancelled out and overwhelmed. Actually, it is worse than that – this sort of per-capita reduction in resource usage actually facilitates expansionism, within our manic and utterly absurd continuous-growth political and economic paradigm.

So as I’ve said a zillion times before, we need to be fighting very hard to get our stupid pollies to gear this country towards a stable population, which is not constantly demanding an ever-bigger consumption of resources, whether they be renewable or non-renewable.

The biggest factor of all in Australia in our efforts to achieve sustainability, reduce carbon emissions, curtail alienation of the natural environmental, alleviate congestion and improve all manner of infrastructure and services, is population stabilisation!!

And the biggest component of this is a big reduction in immigration.

Until we have a PM or a political party of a political/economic/social mindset that can do this, we are just not going to achieve much at all.

Without this all-important step, all our efforts at RRR&E aren't going to count for much, even if they are seen to be really successful.

Valerie,

clearly you're angry, and I don't blame you, so am I. But I agree with Ludwig, any efforts made at the individual level are meaningless in the scheme of things.
I'd go further than Ludwig though and say that the solution has to be global, as capitalism is global, climate is global. The simple fact is that Australia cannot and will not set about reducing populations or cutting green house gases because that would directly and negatively impact the economy; reducing population and emissions=shrinking the economy. Which is like asking a cancerous tumour to shrink voluntarily; it has to be forced! It then dies. That is, the cancer dies, but the organism lives! and can return to a healthy state. What we are doing, around the world, is keeping the disease (capitalism) alive while the organism dies!
Governments are trying to fight the disease by feeding it: tax emissions and force the markets to innovate, to come up with clean technologies=more proliferation of commodities and concomitant waste, failed enterprises etc, more resource depletion and bio-diversity loss, more emissions. Capitalism doesn't do conservation! its engine is growth and clean energy can only come at the expense of further expansion.
Certainly we need clean energy and conservative production, but we need it in tandem with a shrinking consumer base, qualitatively and quantitatively. CAPITALISM CANNOT DO THAT.

And as angry as I am, I don't see why I should futily debase my already comparatively modest life while the capitalists and fat-cats maintain their pathological hold and excesses.

When the world gets serious--an international austerity campaign that starts at the top! and a coordinated conservation effort based on shrinking economics and commodity production--then I'll get on board, and so would the vast majority I believe. It might even restore meaning to their lives.

Sadly, just a fantasy; the brains of the masses are in and "iron cage".

People imagine they are puny and so avoid doing anything. But all progress is started by a few. You can but try. You will not be debasing your modest life style by the measures suggested - you will have more sensible exercise, and reduce waste, which at present is no use to you.
Yes, population is the biggest problem - and we can start trying there too, changing our governments' pronatalist policies, and urging 2-children families everywhere. But the populations are getting more wasteful, not less - we can set our example to buck the trend.

Every direction there is something we can do - you do not know it is useless until you try.
I do not feel inclined to let the world go hang without every effort to stop it.

Squeers says correctly that 'the simple fact is that Australia cannot and will not set about reducing populations or cutting green house gases because that would directly and negatively impact the economy; reducing population and emissions=shrinking the economy.'

Yes, but it is a man-made problem that can have man-made solutions. Capitalism's original idea was OK - but the material growth paradigm can be stopped. Stop moaning and look at what can be done - (not in this article though - this is where we need to put our brains, not in our giving-up.)

ozideas,

I think you need to think more about the implications of what I said. I'm not giving up, I'm trying to address the problem by fomenting en masse, in a more productive direction than the article naively proposes. No amount of saving potato peels or individual effort will make a difference in a capitalist world. And the material growth paradigm cannot be stopped without changing the system; growth is fundamental to capitalism and putting an end to it would effectively end capitalism.
We have rampant environmental issues and have just emerged from the GFC, yet can you show me any country where the obsession isn't once again for growth?
And btw, I would be happy to have my modest lifestyle debased further in order to address the issues by being part of a concerted effort, but I'm damned if I'm going to while the world's filthy rich continue to live in mansions, ride around in private jets etc. etc.

I'm not moaning, I'm being realistic.
Do you know how much the US is spending on the up coming election campaign? That capital comes from growth and the capitalist are not about to give it up. Not even to save the planet!

I suggest you wake up!

"...claims that the “Great Garbage Patch” between California and Japan is twice the size of Texas are grossly exaggerated, according to an analysis by an Oregon State University scientist."

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/01/06/garbage-another-environmental-claim-proven-to-be-hyped/

CORVALLIS, Ore. – There is a lot of plastic trash floating in the Pacific Ocean, but claims that the “Great Garbage Patch” between California and Japan is twice the size of Texas are grossly exaggerated, according to an analysis by an Oregon State University scientist.

Further claims that the oceans are filled with more plastic than plankton, and that the patch has been growing tenfold each decade since the 1950s are equally misleading, pointed out Angelicque “Angel” White, an assistant professor of oceanography at Oregon State.

http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/2011/jan/oceanic-%E2%80%9Cgarbage-patch%E2%80%9D-not-nearly-big-portrayed-media

Here is your brain - ()

Here is your brain on environmentalism - .

Ludwig:” And the biggest component of this is a big reduction in immigration.”

I thought the article was talking about the whole world, not just us.

Next step for my household is solar – can’t afford it right now though. Why can’t I keep my hot water tank and the power companies be forced to go solar instead?

Valerie,

I understand your worry, and the power of your question "How puny..."

In the vastness of space and time we can look in one direction and can hardly imagine the hugeness of the cosmos, the billions upon billions of celestial bodies floating like dust particles in a sea of blackness. And where are we?

We are smaller than small.

Yet, peer in another direction and the perspective changes radically. How puny is puny, really when we can never know what an atom actually looks like? Now, we are the universe. Or are we somewhere in the middle, the center?

What is beyond? We can not, and will not ever, know. We can not, and will not ever, miraculously travel to other habitable worlds. We will never, ever leave our solar sytem for any reason. The laws of physics will not allow it.

Does it matter now why we are here or what our "purpose" is? All we have is eachother and this "little" life-giving ball, this terrarium we call Earth. It is here. And now. It is all we will ever know, all we will ever experience.

And it is good. Everyone must know it is good.

Agree with the author to a certain extent and with Ludwig to a large extend.
But differ with some of the later writers who seek to blame everything on capitalism.

The damage arises from having too many people. If ¾ of the world population disappeared tomorrow, along with it would go most of the factors causing the damage.Alternatively, if capitalism disappeared tomorrow, we’d still be faced with on going damage -- even if we all chose to live like Kalahari Bushmen.

The clearing of forests across Europe and Asia commenced long before capitalism.And the mega fauna were killed-off long before capitalism. William F. Ruddiman http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8014.html identifies human induced climate change from 8000 years ago -- long before capitalism.

SPQR:
"The damage arises from having too many people".
Thanks AGIR, we agree. How do you think the population explosion was possible? Capitalism!
Did you know that Marx was full of admiration for capitalism? It brought an end to the misery and inequity enforced by feudalism, but it imposed a new, anonymous form of tyranny, the bourgeoisie; greater distribution, but even greater inequality and far more rapacious, and this time a mode of production that was its own dynamic. The impact engendered by Adam Smith and co is comparable to that kicked-off by Oppenheimer and co, except of course that the former were genuinely intent on a system that would best accommodate the human condition.
But the Enlightenment didn't only invent political economy, it also invented scientific method, another form of perpetual motion unto ruination. The issue of this unholy alliance was industrialisation, not dedicated to human succour, but to exploitation, and that precious derivative: CAPITAL--hallowed be they name--to be speculated and reinvested ad infinitum--go forth and multiply--with the aid of science, the new deity. We have the ludicrous spectacle today where science, drunk on its success, fancies itself a philosophy, a doctrine worthy of propogation; verily, the truth is objective!
Who'd have thought..
And I thought you were a God-fearing man, Boaz? Isn't there something about false idols in the fine print?

Of course it's all the fault of capitalism! Am I a genius? It's CDF!

Am I suggesting we go back to primordial days? No f--- way! We have to keep going with the unfinished Enlightenment project. Have we already made it--a world of unsustainable glut and povety side by side, one feeding off the other?
But you've got God as a foil, haven't you? The ultimate copout!
Are our problems greater than those faced by the Enlightenment thinkers? No bloody way! They never had a skeric of the plunder, or security or life expectancy we have; but we don't have a skeric of their courage and commitment and belief in the human spirit!
They had to reinvent the world and so do we.

Fat chance!

Holy Moses! Squeers, now you gone and done it:
First you vilify science:
“We have the ludicrous spectacle today where science, drunk on its success, fancies itself a philosophy, a doctrine worthy of propogation; verily, the truth is objective!”
When Botnet reads about this he’ll be hacking mad

Then you mock the Judeo-Christian belief system
2) “CAPITAL--hallowed be they name … And I thought you were a God-fearing man, Boaz? Isn't there something about false idols in the fine print”
When AGIR rides back into town and reads this, I expect he’ll come gunning for you too .

And all of it was totally unnecessary since my post wasn’t specifically aimed at you, but the pack you run with, among whom are indeed some who harbour the fantasy that if we reverted to an earlier more innocent age everything would right itself.

But I will take you up on this point:
“How do you think the population explosion was possible? Capitalism”

Here’s a conundrum:
This is human population growth --- due to “capitalism”
http://tinyurl.com/3vxcnhc

and here’s another that mirrors it pretty well –but could hardly be said to be due to capitalism.
http://www.science.org.au/nova/087/087box02.htm

Funny, ay?

An Internet guide to how man is changing the world. What are you going to do about it?........See, this is what they thought 100 years ago...LOL....EG...." man will never fly"..Oh it gets better:) " see, when they make threads like this...you know their sh!tting themselves.

Ask your selves, if we are going forwards as easy as they say......Why does it seem as if this is not the case? Really....its like treating a drug-addicted-oil-syndrome! They will never see, unless they read it, in the futures histories:)...............really!....its like the three blind mice, and nowhere to run:)

If this planet dies.............your all dead.......but thats right! GOD will say you:).....Hey! you ever know...........this world is full of surprised people/industrialist/religionists/capitalists and so on:)

Look! All that are born on this planet/world.........all of what it gives, is for all of us.

Even the good book and Jesus, would not say, this is not true.

It feels some times, Iam thinking for & billions people! but, However..........even Jesus was only one man.

The clock is ticking. Not even the dinos can beat whats time:)

But roll the dice!.....you never know, you just might beat the odds:)

Oh Dear, Oh dear, Oh Dear.

Good luck.

EVO/leap/Evolution/..Its code:)

Planet....1.......Morons running it.....0

You do the maths. But dont take too long.........

LEAP

SPQR,
your links establish nothing.. What's your point?
There's nothing novel about successful species populating exponentially, and nothing novel about humans doing it in history. But the current explosion, since the industrial revolution, is unprecedented. Only capitalism (so far) has been able to drive and cater to such an explosion of population as we're amid. Your bacteria in a test tube is a controlled experiment whereby life responds to a given food supply and a supportive environment. When the supply is exhausted a massive die-off occurs. The second link draws exactly that parallel with the current human J curve, implying that once consumption peaks and the supportive environment degrades, a mass die-off occurs.
In my opinion the (earthly, not your divine ones) powers that be are well aware of this impending scenario and are intent on using the incredible power and adaptability of mass-consumption to drive innovation, specifically in the area of renewables--hence taxing the bogeyman but not shrinking the consumption dynamic; consumption is harnessed and goaded towards new technologies. The "chosen ones", the tiny percentile that remains after the die-off, will inherit an albeit despoiled Earth, but also the sustainable survival technologies that were developed by the swarm.
It's a brilliant evolutionary strategy, actually, I just resent humanity being exploited in this way.

Squeers,
/// Life responds to a given food supply and a supportive environment. When the supply is exhausted a massive die-off occurs///

Agreed, there is nothing novel about it. You can delay it. Use technology to squeeze a little bit more out of the food crop .Or pack off the excess numbers under the guise of refugees to a less crowded locale. But it only delays the crunch.

It’s a law older than any revealed to Moses and more basic than any Marx ever dreamed-up (and incidentally where science trumps all sorts of philosophy)

A large part of humanity is behaving like bacteria: eat, defecate, and quickly reproduce.And another large part of humanity –found in great numbers on this forum – is telling the first group "its not your fault times are tough, its all to do with AGW , or infidels, or capitalism/exploitation --Just keep doing it".

Pictures of humans behaving like bacteria:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMZ6zt3OHK8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeSgBL7gpAk

SPQR,

"A large part of humanity is behaving like bacteria: eat, defecate, and quickly reproduce...."

Not at all...the ones rapidly reproducing are doing so as a survival technique because the ones controlling their fertility are the ones appropriating most of the resources.

The UN Development Program reports that the richest 20 percent of the world's population consume 86 percent of the world's resources, while the poorest 80 percent consume just 14 percent of the world's resources.

The world's richest 20 percent just happen to adhere to rampant capitalism. It's they who strip the planet of it's resources while shaking a disparaging finger at the rest of humanity.

LOL, Poirot.

Actually, I was thinking of you when I wrote these lines:
“And all of it was totally unnecessary since my post wasn’t specifically aimed at you, but the pack you run with, among whom are indeed some who harbour the fantasy that if we reverted to an earlier more innocent age everything would right itself.”

And speak of the devil, there you are spouting the your usual script
/// Not at all...the ones rapidly reproducing are doing so as a survival technique because the ones controlling their fertility are the ones appropriating most of the resources.///

Tell me, how are the ones who control most of the resources --who you above identify as the west —dictating the following countries fertility rates?

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=21&c=tc&l=en
or this
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=21&c=ym&l=en
or this
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=21&c=sa&l=en

Here’s the real cause:

“Over 80 percent of the population know about family planning methods, but the problem lies in practice he said
He said some thought family planning would lead to health problems and that it was not allowed in Islam.”
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/publisher,IRIN,,YEM,487f10c3c,0.html

So it seems it has little to do with those dastardly capitalist exploiters – sorry Poirot, that was one case you didn’t solve.

Poirot,

The richest 20% of the global population can only be consuming 86% of the resources if "resources" is being used in a very selective way. This sort of language is used to imply that everyone would have enough if the richer people would just share.

To apply a reality check, take a look at the Global Footprint Network site. Their atlas contains tables showing the per capita environmental footprint (rough measure of consumption) in notional hectares for individual nations. (The methodology is explained.) They also group nations by income. Approximately 1.3 billion of us live in low income countries such as Pakistan, with a group average per capita footprint of 1.19 hectares (ha). About 3.5 billion live in lower middle income countries such as Albania or Honduras with an average footprint of 1.64 ha. 0.8 billion live in upper middle countries such as Mexico or Poland, with an average footprint of 3.31 ha. About 1 billion live in high income countries with an average footprint of 6.09 ha (United States is 8 ha). The global average is 2.70 ha, implying a standard of living like that of Turkey.

By multiplying average footprint by number of people, it is possible to calculate that the top billion are responsible for about 35% of the consumption. If all these people were raptured up into the sky and their consumption was divided among the remaining 5.7 billion, the average global footprint would go up to 3.19, the same as Paraguay. If the top billion just cut their average footprint to 2.7 ha and selflessly made the rest of their consumption available to everyone else, then the average for everyone not in the top billion would rise to 2.40 ha from 1.78 ha.

However, these figures are strictly temporary, since global population is continuing to grow at about 80 million a year. An even more important factor is that we are in global overshoot and using resources equivalent to those of 1.4 earths, essentially because we are using up renewable resources faster than they can be replenished. Sharing is no substitute for fewer babies.

Valerie Yule,

Or should I say ‘Vox Clamantis in Deserto’.

Logic has little possibility of penetrating the wall of years and years of indoctrination that bathes civilized man since its very birth.

So is no wonder that a powerful call to reason like yours hits the impenetrable wall of ignorance.

When ‘Logic fails to break into ignorance, skeptics like me claim victory, “Pyrrhic Victory”.

"So is no wonder that a powerful call to reason like yours hits the impenetrable wall of ignorance"

This article is not calling to reason - it is a "fire-and-brimstone" sermon calling to fear and shame.

Acting out of fear and shame will not get you anywhere better.
If you are looking for a proof - check the success-rate of diets...

Better have whatever you consider meaningful in your life right now, then you will not feel the need to procreate in the hope that perhaps your children may fulfill what you missed yourself.