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How puny are you? : Comments
By Valerie Yule, published 8/4/2011An Internet guide to how man is changing the world. What are you going to do about it?
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Posted by Ludwig, Friday, 8 April 2011 11:00:30 AM
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Valerie,
clearly you're angry, and I don't blame you, so am I. But I agree with Ludwig, any efforts made at the individual level are meaningless in the scheme of things. I'd go further than Ludwig though and say that the solution has to be global, as capitalism is global, climate is global. The simple fact is that Australia cannot and will not set about reducing populations or cutting green house gases because that would directly and negatively impact the economy; reducing population and emissions=shrinking the economy. Which is like asking a cancerous tumour to shrink voluntarily; it has to be forced! It then dies. That is, the cancer dies, but the organism lives! and can return to a healthy state. What we are doing, around the world, is keeping the disease (capitalism) alive while the organism dies! Governments are trying to fight the disease by feeding it: tax emissions and force the markets to innovate, to come up with clean technologies=more proliferation of commodities and concomitant waste, failed enterprises etc, more resource depletion and bio-diversity loss, more emissions. Capitalism doesn't do conservation! its engine is growth and clean energy can only come at the expense of further expansion. Certainly we need clean energy and conservative production, but we need it in tandem with a shrinking consumer base, qualitatively and quantitatively. CAPITALISM CANNOT DO THAT. And as angry as I am, I don't see why I should futily debase my already comparatively modest life while the capitalists and fat-cats maintain their pathological hold and excesses. When the world gets serious--an international austerity campaign that starts at the top! and a coordinated conservation effort based on shrinking economics and commodity production--then I'll get on board, and so would the vast majority I believe. It might even restore meaning to their lives. Sadly, just a fantasy; the brains of the masses are in and "iron cage". Posted by Squeers, Friday, 8 April 2011 1:19:59 PM
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People imagine they are puny and so avoid doing anything. But all progress is started by a few. You can but try. You will not be debasing your modest life style by the measures suggested - you will have more sensible exercise, and reduce waste, which at present is no use to you.
Yes, population is the biggest problem - and we can start trying there too, changing our governments' pronatalist policies, and urging 2-children families everywhere. But the populations are getting more wasteful, not less - we can set our example to buck the trend. Every direction there is something we can do - you do not know it is useless until you try. I do not feel inclined to let the world go hang without every effort to stop it. Posted by ozideas, Friday, 8 April 2011 3:30:24 PM
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Squeers says correctly that 'the simple fact is that Australia cannot and will not set about reducing populations or cutting green house gases because that would directly and negatively impact the economy; reducing population and emissions=shrinking the economy.'
Yes, but it is a man-made problem that can have man-made solutions. Capitalism's original idea was OK - but the material growth paradigm can be stopped. Stop moaning and look at what can be done - (not in this article though - this is where we need to put our brains, not in our giving-up.) Posted by ozideas, Friday, 8 April 2011 3:35:52 PM
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ozideas,
I think you need to think more about the implications of what I said. I'm not giving up, I'm trying to address the problem by fomenting en masse, in a more productive direction than the article naively proposes. No amount of saving potato peels or individual effort will make a difference in a capitalist world. And the material growth paradigm cannot be stopped without changing the system; growth is fundamental to capitalism and putting an end to it would effectively end capitalism. We have rampant environmental issues and have just emerged from the GFC, yet can you show me any country where the obsession isn't once again for growth? And btw, I would be happy to have my modest lifestyle debased further in order to address the issues by being part of a concerted effort, but I'm damned if I'm going to while the world's filthy rich continue to live in mansions, ride around in private jets etc. etc. I'm not moaning, I'm being realistic. Do you know how much the US is spending on the up coming election campaign? That capital comes from growth and the capitalist are not about to give it up. Not even to save the planet! I suggest you wake up! Posted by Squeers, Friday, 8 April 2011 4:25:51 PM
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"...claims that the “Great Garbage Patch” between California and Japan is twice the size of Texas are grossly exaggerated, according to an analysis by an Oregon State University scientist."
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/01/06/garbage-another-environmental-claim-proven-to-be-hyped/ CORVALLIS, Ore. – There is a lot of plastic trash floating in the Pacific Ocean, but claims that the “Great Garbage Patch” between California and Japan is twice the size of Texas are grossly exaggerated, according to an analysis by an Oregon State University scientist. Further claims that the oceans are filled with more plastic than plankton, and that the patch has been growing tenfold each decade since the 1950s are equally misleading, pointed out Angelicque “Angel” White, an assistant professor of oceanography at Oregon State. http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/2011/jan/oceanic-%E2%80%9Cgarbage-patch%E2%80%9D-not-nearly-big-portrayed-media Here is your brain - () Here is your brain on environmentalism - . Posted by Jon J, Saturday, 9 April 2011 10:00:48 AM
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Very puny. In fact, very veeerry puuuuuuuuny!!
I’ve been a passionate greenie, environmentalist and sustainabilityist for decades. I was involved with non-government organisations for many years, having been on their committees and served stints as president of three of them, and having been a professional scientist in the field of ecology and environment for more than a decade… and having run for state parliament for the Qld Greens….. oh, and having poured whole lot of passion into debating this stuff on OLO and elsewhere for yonks……and newspaper articles and letters, radio, public talks and guest lectures at uni…blah, blah, blaaaah ..
….. and I feel extreeeemely ineffectual and paaahhyyyuuuuuuuuuuuunnny!!
Sure Valerie, it is good to look at what we can reduce, reuse, recycle and improve efficiency over (RRR&E), but that is such a small part of the total sustainability picture. In fact, in isolation, it is meaningless!!
If we are going to continue to suffer massive expansionism, then all of this stuff is just going to get cancelled out and overwhelmed. Actually, it is worse than that – this sort of per-capita reduction in resource usage actually facilitates expansionism, within our manic and utterly absurd continuous-growth political and economic paradigm.
So as I’ve said a zillion times before, we need to be fighting very hard to get our stupid pollies to gear this country towards a stable population, which is not constantly demanding an ever-bigger consumption of resources, whether they be renewable or non-renewable.
The biggest factor of all in Australia in our efforts to achieve sustainability, reduce carbon emissions, curtail alienation of the natural environmental, alleviate congestion and improve all manner of infrastructure and services, is population stabilisation!!
And the biggest component of this is a big reduction in immigration.
Until we have a PM or a political party of a political/economic/social mindset that can do this, we are just not going to achieve much at all.
Without this all-important step, all our efforts at RRR&E aren't going to count for much, even if they are seen to be really successful.