"That's a brave statement. BLAMING THE VICTIM! I suppose you have more scope to say such things as you're a woman."

Not BLAMING the victim just saying it is still an area that needs work despite the support services for women. You have to read it in context Houlley. Women or men who stay with abusive partners also contribute to ongoing child abuse. The child is not responsible.

Thanks suze
I have learnt to ignore the irrational statements or where there is a flavour of unrelenting hatred - no point in banging one's head against the proverbial wall.

vanna
We seem to be in agreement that statistics should reflect what is really happening out there so that support services can be targetted appropriately.

Houlley
We won't agree on this, but despite all the perceived demonisation of men I don' see mainstream Australia holding that negative perception.

If it were a feminist writing about their woes in modern Australia, I would be arguing the same thing about perceptions versus reality on most issues.

One of the failures of feminism is the lack of involvement of men in discussions about roles, inequities and expectations ie. as a group rather than two subsets arguing at cross purposes.

Snag:”What is wrong with good old fashioned Christian Family values?”

The word Christian.

Loved it Houel then got trapped on youtube watching Sarah Palin clips after that, no idea why but I blame you.

Suze:'In my opinion, if there has EVER been any definite evidence of abuse of any kind towards the children before the marital breakdown, then the kids don't go with that parent.'

Then Houel:”I agree. It's the definitive evidence part that is hard to obtain.”

I disagree with the “any kind” part. A woman is considered unable to protect her children if she allows a man to beat her in front of them and children get removed for this reason quite often. Probably works the other way round too but I’ve never come across it.

There are abuses that occur just because the couples were living together. We have financial abuse etc etc and the abuse umbrella is getting bigger. They’d have to make a list of which abuses would put a child at risk post-(cannot think of good word to insert but it would mean after separation).

Kaep you lost me. 5 billion out of 7 can come here?

The marriage contract has been so sucessful for the economy that I propose it be transposed in law to ALL commercial and other contracts.

1 Investments must be Based on Love, not TRUTH or hard figures. They must be till death(unemployment for more than a month) do us part, and for better or worse.
Worse being: I only pretended to be a profit making concern/10 times a week sex kitten before marriage/contract because I was desperate not be left on the shelf while all my girlfriends/co-investors were busy being married/signed up).

2 False pre-contract prospectuses are to be encouraged, not hounded by ASIC because they stimulate the players to SPEND SPEND SPEND and thus they stimulate the economy. Women are allowed & encouraged to dress like whores pre-contract and turn into harpie-frumps after. Businesses seeking investments should be allowed the same latitude. The more money and kids that spill out of loser's pockets the more Canberra will find ways to collect it for Nation building and economic growth.

3 In Divorce/nullification of contracts, judges may deem women( the greater consumers) better carers/directors for family/company assets because theyare rarers and closer to the reproductivity/productivity cycles than men in the trenches. Thus they get the company cars, properties and kids or workers as the case may be. No basis in MERIT will be entered into as this saves court time and costs. And all the stamp duty goes to Canberra!

What a robust Nation/economy we could build with those contractual arrangements. Its basically how the Westminster system operates in Government anyhow..
We Anglo ruling-class Australians in Canberra know a thing or two about economic imperatives, GST, migration and EXTERNALISING costs to the States and thereon to the stressed out potential child killing losers in society - where those costs beong

Ghoulia Shillard

PM

Vanna and Formersnag seem to want all of us to stay married permanently so there won't ever be single mothers or defacto relationships.

What century were you guys raised in?

How naive to think all our problems would go away if we forced married couples who hated each other, or where one partner is violent and bashes everyone in the family, or where one partner gambles away all the money, and the kids are starving, and all hell is breaking loose... if we all just stayed married, all would be good in society.

Yeah right... lol!

Aren't there a few countries in the middle east and a few other parts of the world, where women remain in servitude to their husbands for life, and their husband owns them and the kids, no matter what, and they have no legal or religious way of getting out of this situation?

Wouldn't you guys be happier living that ideal lifestyle?
Excellent!
Off you go then...

Suzanonline,

There have been very few studies undertaken into marriage or divorce in Australia, but from certain studies in other countries, the majority of people are no happier after divorce than before.

Very few studies have also been undertaken into single parent families and de facto relationships, but from certain studies in other countries, both single parent families and de facto relationships should be declared a health hazard for any children involved, as there are very few benifites for children in those so-called family types.

The lack of studies undertaken is similar to hiding data. It is done to prolong the feminist ideal of children being raised by the mother and the state, with the father removed but paying money to the mother.

vanna,

You can't generalise where these things are concerned.

A good friend of ours is at present going through a family court procedure to get access to his children. We have been behind him all the way and he has the support of many friends. We consider his wife treated him terribly - she just up and left and he has been playing catch-up ever since...but he is making progress and the cards are now beginning to stack in his favour.

However, my own father was a gambler and a drinker - he made our childhood a misery. When they split up, my brother went with my mum and for some unknown reason he took me with him. I was eight years-old and I spent the next seven years following him around the countryside while he drank and gambled and continued on his merry way - until at 15 I found my own way back to my mum....

Don't generalise...