Dear rpg

re
"Cluster bombs used by the US, self detonate after a time .. cluster bombs by less sophisticated countries do not ... "

Who told you that?

Cluster bombs used by the US in Iraq and Afghanistan don't
"self-detonate". I expect that the solid majority of cluster duds go off when humans or livestock disturb them. They are nasty, unpredictable items, not even useful as IED's.

Think about it, rpg - a cluster bomb canister with 300 bombies and a bombie failure rate of 1% will leave three duds for every bomb dropped. If the failure rate is higher, as it was in Lao PDR, or more recently in the middle-east, then the duds per CBU increases. As the OpEd says, civilians are the victims, and life is hard enough for people in Afghanistan and Iraq (and other current and former SE Asian and Middle-East combat zones) without adding the challenges of surviving as a disabled person in an informal economy. Is that how you would want to live? Assuming you lead a charmed life, your circumstances will be influenced by others who aren't so lucky.

The validity of Mr Fraser's argument has nothing to do with how he, as a member of parliament, behaved in 1975, or before or after. Ask yourself: do you want to live somewhere there are cluster bomb duds? This essay is not about "The Man'. It's about a pressing humanitarian issue, and a UN treaty to see it right, and how we as Australians should be supporting this visionary treaty, with strong and enabling legislation.

I appreciate your opinions about surprises, regarding the international treaties we Australians have acceded to, but I can only recommend that you get in there and research a bit more about our international commitments to ourselves and other nations. It's easy for me, because I'm more interested in public affairs than I am in "Top Gear".

You show interest enough to read the OpEd and express an opinion. I wish a whole bunch of our government and opposition parliamentarians would make a similar effort

surviva "Who told you that? " US Army officials, Why?

What do you know about current US sub-munitions specifications?

"Think about it", don't need to I know the facts. I don't sit around reading dribble and then assuming I know something about a particular field .. do you? oh ..

"The validity of Mr Fraser's argument " again, read what I said .. I was responding to Davdf's soulful sighing and fond wishes that, "if only the US had MFraser" .. they can have him, for the reasons I stated, you can't just turn things around to try to cover your tracks .. Mal will never have credibility .. ever

(I didn't mention 1975)

don't scold me for what you think I said .. I'm happy to be educated

"It's easy for me, because I'm more interested in public affairs than I am in "Top Gear"

I've never watched it .. care to try again?

Just say it .. without the silly little innuendos, man up for once .. jeez, no wonder you want to buddy up to Mal

Dear rpg

re your comments:

"surviva "Who told you that? " US Army officials, Why?"

I've been on the cluster bombs issue for 9 years or so. Still, that's no reason you should accept my word without question. There is plenty of information available on the internet, about effects and failure rates of cluster bombs.

Here are two articles, one from 2006, "Fatal Footprint":
http://www.mineaction.org/downloads/1/Fatal_Footprint_HI_report_on_CM_casualties.1.pdf

and

http://bit.ly/dR7zMN

Copyright (c) 2000 University of Michigan Law School
Michigan Journal of International Law
ARTICLE: FOOTPRINTS OF DEATH: CLUSTER BOMBS AS INDISCRIMINATE WEAPONS UNDER INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW
Fall, 2000
22 Mich. J. Int'l L. 85
Author
Virgil Wiebe*
Excerpt [from] Introduction

"Cluster bombs are indiscriminate weapons. The inherent nature of cluster bombs as wide-area munitions, at a minimum, should make their use illegal in civilian areas, as the risk of civilian casualties is prohibitively high. Unexploded bomblets act as de facto landmines after initial use, making them indiscriminate killers for decades to come. 2 In light of these characteristics, a moratorium on the use, production, trade, and stockpiling of cluster bombs should be implemented immediately. This moratorium should lead to banning their use, production, transfer and stockpiling through international treaty."

rpg, why not ask your Army official for an opinion of the above information? Kindly let me know what he/she says.

It has been a long time since I was interested in weapons production, but from my memory I am aware that western armies were concerned about the longevity of weapons such as landmines and other munitions. Anti personell and anti vehicle cluster bombs especially had a high failure rate when used on soft surfaces such as sand, and this posed a serious danger to advancing allied troops, or even civilians after hostilities ceased.

It was speculated twenty years ago, that it would be a simple matter to make land mines and cluster bomblets self detonate after a set time, defuse themselves after a set time, and even make them biodegradable. Every person reading this article knows that this is hardly beyond our technology.

But the author of this article makes no mention of this, he just wants to ban cluster bombs, and that is that.

Cluster bombs are a very effective weapon, they were especially effective in the Gulf War against Saddam's army and were one of the reasons why Allied casualties were so low, while enemy casualties were very high. I do not know of any civilian casualties by cluster bombs during that conflict.

I think that the author of this article is just another pacifist who objects to every effective weapon on the grounds that they kill people

The UN and all countries and peoples interested could have a convention making war criminals of all makers, users and distributers of cluster bombs, land mines and agent orange.

Banning does not go far enough.

The enemies made thru using these weapons far outnumber the temporary gain.

The enemies who follow a bad example make it even worse.