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The Forum > Article Comments > Multiculturalism: at what point does it stop being an inherent good? > Comments

Multiculturalism: at what point does it stop being an inherent good? : Comments

By Jenny Goldie, published 25/2/2011

Can multiculturalism be good when it incorporates cultures which do not mirror our own liberal, humanitarian and egalitarian culture?

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stevenlmeyer,

Thanks for the support and info.

Yes, I realise 'grateful's' playing a game, what else can he do when the facts are obvious? That's why I referred him to those books which relate the insidious nature of the spread of Islam. I'm familiar with the process of dhimmification and the jiziah. The claim Islam wasn't spread by the sword is pure sophistry. Once the ruling class of a conquered nation was destroyed and replaced by Moslems and non-Moslems were assigned a greatly inferior status, Islamification(and often Arabization) was more or less inevitable (The Iranians have been one of the few Moslem societies in the ME to, an extent, resist Arabization). The populations of north Africa and the ME ultimately weren't converted to Islam by persuasion but by force- the periods of tolerance were few and far between. Of course, Western Christians were also brutally intolerant of relgious minorities during the medieval period,particularly Jews and Christian 'heretics' who were probably 'safer' in Moslem or Eastern Orthodox communities.
The cruel history of the Janissaries is related in both 'Lords of the Horizons' and 'Lords of the Golden Horn'.

I have to say that I'm sceptical of the idea that Islam is just another religion,given the appalling economic, social and political state of Islamic societies. The multiculturalists should really learn more about the nature of Islam and its affects on society.
The campaign to protect Islam from criticism is particularly sinister as it's an attempt to reproduce the 'ruling class' position of Moslems in liberal democracies.
Posted by mac, Tuesday, 1 March 2011 1:31:46 PM
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Who gets to decide at which point Multiculturalism is an inherent good, and on what basis do they have such authority?

Furthermore, if they do have such authority to make such an enlightened decision, why is it that they cannot implement it?
Posted by AlanCocox, Tuesday, 1 March 2011 8:28:14 PM
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grateful,

Do you believe that the UN Human Rights Council proposal of laws protecting Islam from criticism worldwide is a right move?

Do you believe that Moslems should protest, indeed root out, primitive practices now attached to Islam here in Australia?

For all the defense of Islam, we are short of hearing healthy debate by the Islamic community in our society about certain indefensible practices and beliefs.

I have not mentioned a couple of these, but doctors in public hospitals are aware of them; thus, would also be the wider Islamic groups.

Any change to particular practices should not be due to condemnation from non-Islamic
society, but should be the result of enlightened Islamic thought.
Posted by Danielle, Tuesday, 1 March 2011 8:40:19 PM
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While Grateful is preparing an answer for Danielle re :
/// Do you believe that the UN Human Rights Council proposal of laws protecting Islam from criticism worldwide is a right move?///

And for Steven re the Victorian vilification act –from way back, which he side stepped.

He might like to comment on this:

"Let there not be two religions in Arabia".[ Mohammed’s dead bed admonition ]

The last word in Islamic multiculturalism and tolerance. He is fond of blaming the Wahhabis for any form of excess --but he can hardly blame this on wahhabism.

As one comenator adds:
“The 'Jews' and Christians were, INDIGENOUS ARABS who had as much, if not MORE, right to live in the Peninsula as the upstart Muhammad and his …followers.”
Posted by SPQR, Wednesday, 2 March 2011 4:57:56 AM
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Some commentors observe that sections of the Australian community are unpleasantly misogynist. However, they are looked upon as being from the lower end of the gene pool. They are not clerical leaders.

The last few years have witnessed Muslim clerics abusing the courtesy of living in this country. Taj El-Din Hilaly, not only compared women who did not wear the Islamic veil to “uncovered meat” ripe for raping, but also laughed and make derogatory remarks about Australia on Al Jazeer TV; he particularly raised the issue that it was a crime to rape one’s wife. Sheik Feiz Mohammed and cleric Samir Abu Hamza supported Hilaly’s views; the latter also directed his male congregation to beat and rape their wives for disobedience.

These men are clerical leaders. It surprises me that their Islamic communities have not demanded that they be replaced. If not, why not?

When Hilaly was leaving for an overseas trip, a reporter questioned him about his comments. Hilaly refused to answer and accused the reporter of racism. This is not racism.

How are our Australian laws against domestic violence and rape in marriage to be applied when these are religious directives? How should our law respond to publicly issued directives from such individuals?

I am not at all surprised at what has emerged overseas. The PC movement effectively stiffled healthy debate on issues not consistent with, in many cases hard-won, western values. Rightly or wrongly, communities believed certain groups were in a priviledged position; indeed, certain groups may have believed this also - perhaps believing they
were also above the law - or the law didn't apply to them. The result is a massive back swing.

Australia is not a racist country, nor is it intolerant of different religions - especially non-christian religions. No critical observations about Budhhists, Sikhs, Bahai’s etc. etc... indeed, we welcome and enjoy this diversity. Nor did we have any issues with Islam which has a very long history in this country.
Posted by Danielle, Wednesday, 2 March 2011 4:20:51 PM
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Well, I'm late in the piece here, so sorry if I cover old ground.
My first question would be, what values do we cherish? And then I'd ask, "are these values self-standing, universal and all that (has anyone made a list), or are they contrived after the fact?
I'll go for the latter. I'll say, "sh!t, ain't we lucky, p'raps we should have some universal values to back it up so's we can defend ourselves against criticism.
Trouble is, it's not that easy, is it? People go digging around and saying, "'ang-on a minute, if you say that then you must mean that and so on..", and it all looks rather dubious.
So then, rather than words which are, let's face it, problematic, some bright spark says, let's 'ave fireworks, and we can call it "Australia Day! We can all get pissed and celebrate gawd knows what!"
So when someone says "at what point does multiculturalism stop being an inherent good?", I say , at the point when the purists start getting serious!
From where I sit, our culture is a dog's breakfast, and it's not the fault of multi-culti. Multi-culti drives the economy, whether we're screwing some poor bastards offshore, or pretending we like'em as tourists. Multi-culti is our bread and butter.
Again, what values do Aussies cherish? and can they stand the allure of a fast buck?
Australia's prosperity was and is built on multiculturalism, if we're going to start inventing values now, is the economy exempt? And should the fact that we're lucky bastards have an effect on our morality?
Posted by Squeers, Wednesday, 2 March 2011 6:07:47 PM
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