Another 'scientist' who took the 'shout louder' mantra to heart falls on his own statistical sword:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/02/08/coffin-meet-nail-more-on-steigs-reconstruction-issues/#more-33548

Honestly, one would hope these guys could learn some basic statistics. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

yes the big freeze
has really upset their 'model-bling'

the models also didnt facter in the volcanoes
doing their rapid cooling..lol

they wouldnt want the newspapers to pickup on how the wind turbines couldnt handle the cold and stopped working...[all that govt subsidy/money wasted]

there is also the issue of the increases of price
versis the overly generous return..[usually double the price we pay for coal power]...

facter in the fact the sun dont shine at night..and those getting the generous govt gifts of subsidised solarcell...solar sell's..leeching off the off peak power system ..the rest of us mugs are paying for

add in the new tax's and levies

funny how the opisition dosnt add in that extra tax
[smokers are bearing]..they quote the others ..but the silence about the smoking tax ..mate thats really revealing heaps..

its time we all got the same rate
not those thieves stealing our offpeak supply..at off peak rates
while collecting 44 cents ..for that power..made by the solar cells WE PAID for..

the greed of those in on this solar scam...
has kicked industry into high gear
but its the govt lucre/asubasidy..that helps make the scam work

i hear yesterday ..just one solar scamer has stock in hand of 30 million...that is 300,000 solar panels...we payed for

but what can we do
the solar lobby took over the greens

when big busness decided to go green...took over [subverted/perverted] the green movement..industry got its next stage of industry direction..figured out and payed for..

but its all a scam..built on a lie..
sold by fear..and accountants/economists wanting the cash now

think how much more energy has been wasted..going green
industry got a new lease on life..making more things..that cost us the earth..and dont work anyhow

ps if you come across broken solar cells
remember the big cost of their production is in silver
[the price of silver has trippled]..and plenty is used in making these cash cows for those in the know]...

note the price of silver can only go up

its allready trippled
just to get one percent on solar..!

Yes, screaming louder can have the effect of looking ridiculous or hysterical and any campaign like that loses momentum. As you suggest, extreme approaches are usually indicative of that fear.

However, if AGW is proven beyond a doubt the nature of the AGW advertising campaigns will pale into insignificance and the 'hysteria' will be judged as appropriate response.

Marketing has been equally as strong from the anti-AGW groups in response to a strong leaning towards AGW in the media, education groups etc.

I am against a CPRS or ETS if Australia is the only virgin in the brothel. If we introduce a domestic burden like an ETS it should be matched with tariffs on imports so that businesses and Australian consumers are not disadvantaged - but that is not going to happen in lieu of the free trade mindset. Australia does not have enough influence to be a leader on this issue and our emissions are insignificant by comparison. It is ludicrous to talk about an ETS when much of our coal is being exported to countries who do not aspire to an ETS or commitment to reduce carbon emissions. Paying more to emit does not mean less will be emitted. But that is heading off on another tangent.

The way history will report AGW advertising campaigns and PR efforts will be governed by the outcome of doing nothing.

screaming louder .. yes, like this yesterday

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=11588

and some of the follower hysterics lamenting that "denialists" are out in force .. oh woe is us .. woe!

Yesterday's article was an attempted mindbomb .. OMG things are WORSE that Drastic, they are CATASTROPHIC

As I read that article, it amazed me that the author is at this stage of fear and paranoia .. what next, after catastrophe? Holocaust, no that's burning isn't it and now AGW means rain, drought, cyclones, no weather at all .. everything, everything is caused by AGW .. aaaaargh!

I wonder how you live with yourself after going off like that. What do you do next, how do you escalate even further?

Or do you .. take action?

I do worry about some of the hysterics self harming because the world is not getting the message, or worse harming others .. for their own good of course.

Honestly if you stand above this and look at it, it just looks silly the way activists carry on, hysterical hardly describes it adequately.

Of course it could be argued that rants like this are evidence of hysterical shouting by the denialist true believers that congregate around Quad-RANT Magazine, which with an occasional rare exception, publishes essay which are mostly vacuous, and which would be given a fail grade in any half-way rigorous philosophy 101 class at any serious university.

This is especially true of the essays it publishes which advocate a return to old-time Biblical religiosity as a "cure" for our individual and collective cultural malaise.

Whatever you might think of the evidence for human-induced global warming, and ignoring Ho Hum's contribution, there is little doubt that its effects have been wildly oversold by the global warming crowd - and over sold for too long.

However, the real break was the climategate stuff followed by Copenhagen where nothing happened. The debate cooled noticeably after that. People realised that their climate scientist idols had feet of clay.

Another point over looked in the story is that the public is now use to being warned over catastrophes that don't occur. Y2K is one major example. Then there are the disease scars such as SARS and swine flu. Not only should we be much hotter, we should be unable to use our computers and dead.

I am with you Curmudgeon, Wednesday, 9 February 2011 10:40:29 AM .

Another example of the Goons in action was their Education Talkfest in the MIA where they told Farmers that the Darling System was Finished Kaput! no longer will water flow down the Murray Darling System , that was about eight weeks ago and of course we all know about the flood events since ! Embarrassing for the Goons ? Not likely , their truth is like Religious Dogma miraculous happenings do happen !
Given that the Darling catchment begins just above Brisbane only a Goon would believe that the Darling is now a vacant river bed .
Where were these people educated or were they educated ? They don't seem to have any understanding of our agricultural History .

My favorite Spiritual Philosopher has always pointed out that Western "civilization" altogether is based on the absurd quest to conquer nature and even matter.

He has also pointed out that before that happens nature, or the world process altogether WILL bite back, and with a terrible vengeance.

" ... the thousand forms of your own machine will turn upon you, and all the war and natural horrors you have feared will ruin the surface of your world .. "

In more recent times he pointed that Western "civilization" is effectively in a state of self and world destructive terminal psychosis.

We are all trapped, implicated and contribute to this collective insanity.
But I would argue that the world-view promoted by those on the right side of the culture wars champions this quest to conquer nature, and is effectively the leading edge manifestation of this collective psychosis.

An assessment of the mood of Western "civilization" altogether.

"The quest for power or control over the unknown is the collective egoic pursuit, or aggressive search of mankind, in the midst of, and on the basis of, the universal reactions of egoic fear, sorrow, and anger .... To affirm, as the world-culture of scientific materialism does, that this All of space-time is merely materiality - limited, dying, and effectively, dead - is, itself, a kind of aggressive affirmation of power, a collective cultural manifestation of a dissociative disposition that is merely afraid, self-absorbed, and deeply depressed by sorrow and anger."

" This overcoming of falsity and negativity MUST occur, because all of mankind is insane in this late-time. The craziness that may be observed in the world is the manifestation of a universal, and therefore dangerous, collective human insanity that is becoming more and more profoundly destructive day by day. There is a profound conflict in the heart and mind of humanity in the present epoch. A conflict resulting from its own false and ego-made doctrines, its own aggressive and ignorant dissociation from Reality Itself."

Oddly enough much of the above described collective insanity is championed by those that presume to be religious.

More lines from the same essay:

" There have always been insane human beings, but in earlier times, they were not as powerful as they have become in this late-time. It is only in this late-time that human beings have become capable of producing effects than can change even global weather patterns, and global ecological patterns of all kinds. But human beings have always been insane in the realm of politics, for example. For countless centuries, whenever human beings, in their egoity, have been capable of influencing conditional events, there has always been insanity and conflict. But now, in its motion into the twenty-first century, the insanity of mankind is influencing even the larger picture of the human natural circumstance. Ans THIS MUST BE CHANGED - or there is going to be a terrible, horrific calamity on Earth!. Such a calamity is not yet inevitable, but it WILL occur if there is not a fundamental transformation of mankind - in its heart and mind, and in its endeavors. A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTENING of the world-process must occur, because mankind is now having a PROFOUNDLY NEGATIVE effect on the human world-process, and even on the larger natural domain of the world."

These words were spontaneously spoken in 1998. Meanwhile 13 years later the situation has gotten much much worse.

It is interesting than Christians for instance can point to the fiery prophets of the "Old" Testament. But when a fiery prophet appears in now-time His warnings are ignored and dismissed!

By the way the author was profoundly aware of and sensitive to the state of the world altogether, and of and to the patterns, past present and future, that were generating the current situation on this Earth-world.
He could also see and feel with horrific clarity how these deep patterns were inevitably going to play them-selves out on to the world-stage if the current motions continued.
Hence the urgency of His warnings.

But ours is an unconscious "civilization" in which hardly anyone wants to wake up.

Garum Masala - true. Another example of a forecast disaster that did not happen, and in fact the forecast was immediately contradicted by events..

Ho Hum - the problem with forecasts for disaster for western civilisation because of our self distructive nature is that the disaster never seems to happen.

I might also suggest you make your comments shorter..

HoHUM ! gosh what or how can I help you ?
Perhaps you should go Gandi for a while , think in a horizontal line ,peruse the Karma Sutra then participate in the Elixir of Life for a fortnight or more , I don't normally hand out advice for free but I am committed to help you climb your hill and shed your Muse of Tragedy .

hohum "But when a fiery prophet appears in now-time His warnings are ignored and dismissed!"

That's probably because there are so many prophets, who are so insistent that the world is ending, which it regularly does not, that we suffer prophet tedium, or even prophet fatigue.

Think about it, how many doom prophets in history have been correct .. and let's not count the rewriting of history in holy books, after the event, including some person from the past to back up current claims .. mere political, or religious convenience. Zero?

In the past, when things were a little more rugged than today, false prophets were stoned or otherwise put to death .. nowadays we give them tenure, Nobel prizes and Oscars. (this will change I'm sure, people can only be BS'd for so long)

Environmental Activism is the new age religion, you have people to evangelize, you can quote your favorite guru .. blissfully ignorant that others may not be in need of spiritual guidance as you are and do not have a gap or guilt in their lives that needs to be healed or condoned.

In other words, don't preach your religion to me ..

Back in the 1960s, or maybe even the late 50s, Isaac Asimov (aka The Good Doctor) penned a marvellous and influential little essay titled, from memory, ‘The Power of Geometric Progression’. He began by calculating the approximate volume of the human race. Taking established data on population growth, he went on to determine how long it would take before there were enough of us to cover the entire USA with people standing shoulder to shoulder. From memory, it was something like 800 years. He went on to tell us how, if we continued to breed at the same rate, it wouldn’t take more than another couple hundred years to cover all the dry land on the planet. Not long thereafter, we’d cover the seas as well, and shortly after that the mass of humanity would equal that of the earth. He calculated how many years would pass before, at the same rate of growth, humanity outweighed the solar system, the Milky Way ... I can’t recall how many years it took before every single particle of matter in the universe was used up to make human beings. Wish I could remember the figure, but it was tens of thousands, not millions. That’s 'the power of geometric progression'.

Asimov’s essay was a Mind Bomb, but benign. He wasn’t predicting an apocalypse — just pointing out that we couldn’t, and wouldn’t, continue to propagate endlessly at the same rate. He was right, of course. But he changed the perspective of movers and shakers, using good science to encourage measures which, in the end, defused the Big Issue of the 1960s: Population Explosion. Today, despite increased life-spans, many developed countries rely on immigration to prevent their populations from shrinking. The universe is safe. And Asimov’s Mind Bomb didn’t provoke AFS.

Today’s propagandists aren’t nearly so clever. Making extravagant claims of impending disaster, then labelling anyone who's unconvinced a ‘denialist’, is a hopelessly jejune strategy. So was the Inquisition. Change isn’t a bad thing ... if it’s change for the better. Asimov, tongue firmly in his cheek, was convincing. Climate alarmists aren’t.

OMG rpg! You have just explained to me why I think global warming theories are a crock of bowel motions. It must be because all that mad chatter sounds like a new religion :)

I agree there is climate change. Hasn't the climate changed many, many times before in Earth's history? No surprises there.

What I don't believe is that us insignificant humans can actually DO the changing of the climate ourselves? Isn't that big-noting ourselves in the greater scheme of things?

I don't think that climate change/global warming believers are the only harbingers of doom and gloom though.

We still have plenty of religious people out there willing to damn us all to hell for our 'sinful' life, and willing to blame the climate change as a price we all have to pay for these sins.

Isn't July something ,this year, supposed to be the end of the Earth (again)...?

donkeygod, I think you're attributing too much to Asimov. Asimov's essay probably had even less affect than the hysterical rantings of Paul Ehrlich and Lester Brown (who, despite their dismal track record of failed predictions, are still venerated as prophets of the Gaian religion).

The simple truth is that democracy, emancipation and the market (so derided by the fashionable green-left) did what all the programs (or progroms) and would-be social engineering of the hand-wringing doomsayers never could, and slowed, and will sooner rather than later stop, population growth.

yesterdays hit piece on the abc was full of distortions
[in should have taken notes]

but some bits i recall were a minester talking about polutants
but were only getting a tax on carbon..not polution
[polution is both yesterdays bazz word and todays truth]

take the polutant used to clean solar cells[100 tyimes more destructive than carbon
or the methane..[from home composting]30 times more poluting
put the tax on solar cells and home composting

then there is the delusions propagated in adverts
a small puiece of pig meat costing 300 mils of carbon
yes when intensivly farmed in europe with heating costs added in

or the distortions re meat..cows making methane
[nothing else eats grass][the grass can be eaten and make methane ...or make methane by itself..simply by just dying

but back to the abc hit piece
[it was so blatent i forget most of its lies]
but one that comes to mind was statistical definition

man made charts...saying more disasters
justr who is defining a disaster?
havnt heard of many cyclones this year
or the yanki version of them

then of course there is the haarp
but surly govt hasnt played that card[again]

ps noting the qld floods
were man made [the brisie one]
sems they saved the water..to sell it
then let it go at the WORST TIME..its cause was GREED

the darn damm was overfull...fast nearing two hundreed percent capacity..[now there is an inquiry underway ..and suprise suprise..it wont say nothing till jan NEXT YEAR

[and now we get a new tax]..then the other new tax..on top of the smokers tax..and increased energy prices..on top of signapure-parity colluded pricing ..for their prenium unleaded ..as our our base-price

..well done anna blight an julia

we want representative leaders
and get taxation revenuers playing at being weather girls

one under god, Thursday, 10 February 2011 6:43:25 AM

The Brisbane Dam your talking about is not a storage facility , the Storage Dam was to be some what downstream .
This system was very well designed the idea was to hold the potential flood back then release the water so major flooding would not occur , however ignorance and stupidity prevailed and the Storage dam was never built saving the ALP Govt. of the day millions to spend on Social engineering . Obviously the Flood Mitigation Dam needs to be Empty if it's going to mitigate a flood .

under one god

You forgot the tax they introduced on my Rum and Cokes, intended to try to get me and all those other young buggars to sober up. Why would we?

What with all the gloom and doom and especially with all that bloody Labor induced victimhood about.

Garam yes it was to be south of Brisbane and was called Wolfdene. It was proposed by the Nationals old Joh who also built Wivenhoe. It was suposed to hold Brisbane's water supply while Wivenhoe was only to be for flood mitigation and to top up Wolfdene..

And Hey Guess who scrapped it?

That's right Young Kevvy, one of Labor's great with his wonderful foresight. Yea the one that was up here with his bleeding heart helping his flood victims until he got spiked and ended up in hospital with an infected big toe.

It was his first act when running Wayne Goss's Government in Queensland in the 90's.

Yep another Labor stuff up ... just to make themselves electorally popular, has caused great destruction ... again. You won't read about that in the main sewer media.

Now where's my rum?

And now, true to form the latest great labor wonders, Gillard, Swan and Bligh are flicking the cost of rebuilding the Brisbane, they all love so much and caused to be flooded, onto the Brisbane City Council. ie Brisbane residents who will also be hit with Gillard's and Swan's levy which now apparently is only to be aimed at rebuilding flood devestated country Qld.

Where are you Crazy Kevvy? Standing Up for the Southside of Brisbane ... in your usual way? Mind you, you live on top of a hill and Brisbane people dumoped most of your mates and are going to Dump 'Tropical Disaster Anna', so why should you care, Eh?

Old Joh would be laughing his old ironic and sneering laugh at the stupidity of the latest bunch of labor w-n-ers, as was his habit.

Is this the Real Julia? Yep for sure.

Ain't it grand to see them all lining up with Crazy Bob. Who would also be cheering his countrified a..e off in the locals around Charters Towers. All those billions flowing mostly into his electorate, which happens to be the 'flooded' half of country Queensland. I reckon there'
There'll be a few beers for Bob for the rest of his life from his electors. An good on ya Bob. Well done. You've changed these labor wonders into true Agragrian Socialists. Wouldn't old Joh be chuffed.

The more I see of this mixed up directionless labor disaster the drunker I become and the more insane becomes my manicial laughter.

hohohohohichohoho

And the main sewer media avoid scrutinizing them and take this lot seriously ...

Old Fat Lawrie should be up here losing some of his weight helping out his mate crazy Kevvy clean up ... it'd be a greater help than his latest idiot rantings.

keith, Thursday, 10 February 2011 12:02:29 PM

Thanks Keith I didn't know Rudd was involved but it figures .

Everything he got involved with ended up a stuff up , seems like the majority of voters must like Fantasy Men ?
I read the original designers description regarding the two dams and how it would work , No mysteries there , beats me why all those people involved in losing life and limb etc. don't respond with a Class Action and sue Rudd for his gross irresponsibility , Duty of Care etc. It's no mystery now why his own compatriots booted him out.

It's a complete mystery to me how his collegues elected Latham, Rudd and Gillard.

Their choices have gone from bad to worse. And worse is yet to come. With Gillard's and the labor party current ratings in the polls another back-stabbing and coup isn't that far away. And just how bad will be brutus as P.M. for sure as hell there ain't no Mark Antony among this mob.

Have you noticed how quiet the not so faceless men have been lately?

pilot to bomba-dear

[ok ya ready for the next big think-tank thing?]

pitch hitter..mr chris money ..[ok should have two o's]
journo/auther ,..[ie not a scientist..ie pr shill]

he was at press club today

the cute young boy thing
..is here to influence the youth market
and be a big thing [hit]..with the young maidens..

he gives a good lecture...
rubbishes bush and howhard
[but clearly dont know much ..past his brief]

to wit he put down howard..
yet the policy labour ..put up las-time..
was concieved BY howhard ..and co.

the press sounded him out re gmo and mad cow stuff
but he appears a pinch hit specialist
..only about the global con..[warming/cooling/change]

anyhow its clear the dear boy shall be a hit on ten's youth shows
[you watch]..lol they are so predictable

anyhow the key words are
'science meets parlement'

so its ya tax dollars what brought him here

but he isnt a pol-lie
..nor a scientist

he is a journo/auther..
thus here to put up some yanki authoritive ..pr spin on the balls[bombs]

looks like the mind bombs*..are starting
[watch ..*where he targets his ..pr/spin]

its aimed at the youth ..for sure..
[will lay money on it]

bombs away

watch out cluster bomblets on the way
the one million woman movement
[heavilly advertised on targeted networks..with ..[govt money?]

thats all ..about getting the new tax through
their latest adverts even reveal its about the warming tax

just watch
there will be a drive on ..at schools

in the end
it will be one thousand woman lobbying
for a few men ..to get their new tax ..on..[carbon futures]
..to speculate with and buy and sell

oh the spin and lies they will sell
then the media event..

even a female pm to add sparkle to the event

no doudt many girls
pretending to be woman

govt is pulling out all stops on this one
there will be a natzie youth movement
oops [woe=mans movement]..on near you

the spin/meisters are on it ..big time
julia is seerving the faceless men well