But BOAZ, I don't know the truthfulness of the event. Which is not to say that you are lying, but we are fallible, gullible creatures with brains that seek out patterns. And there's plenty of examples of people being wrong.

Sure, I'm naturally skeptical of such a claim and there are those who would be inclined to accept it. Likewise I'm more likely to attribute unusual events to simple probability than others who may see Jesus in a tree, or Mary in a water stain or grilled cheese sandwich and think it's a miracle. But that's not being closed-minded, give me solid evidence and I'll accept it. Until then I'll unashamedly favour a reasonable explanation that adheres to the laws of nature over one that doesn't. If a god wants to give incontrovertible evidence I'm sure it could.

Taffy, I wasn't disagreeing.

Jose, all you've shown is that a painting considered sacred for 500yrs managed to remain in good condition.
http://www.tiogaadventures.com/L17-Cloak.jpg Reflection in eyes? Starmap? Don't think so, cite? Bomb: surprised if it would.

Pericles: molds and prints.

1212, don't SHOUT so much.

Short of time travel or a way to see photons that left Earth long ago, the actual origin of life on this planet will never be known. Abiogenesis cannot in that sense be demonstrated, but the possibility of it in some form or another can be shown. This is not entirely unsubstantiated:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1707185&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8700225&dopt=Abstract

The small set of chemicals used is not enough or not realistic, fine. But assuming a large variety of chemicals is also unrealistic. The spread of chemicals across the planet wouldn't be entirely uniform. Pockets of whatever might be required could form. UV and electricity are not the only possibilities.

I've said it before and I'll have to say it again, evolution is perfectly compatible with the first life being created by a god, alien or whatever. There was life capable of mutation and that's all evolution needs. No idea what you mean by this: "test where it came from and where it was going", but evolution is, or at least was, falsifiable.

On Miracles of healing, I was listening to Sydney talk back radio this morning, while a bloke was sharing his story on miraculously receiving his sight. He had been totally blind for the past six years with cataracts and on the morning of his operation two Catholic sisters prayed with him before the operation. He immediately received his full sight. He was not a Christian and never believed in miracles. When his surgeons came to do pre-operation proceedures they could not believe it, as his cataracts were already removed and he now had perfect vision.

I am generally a skeptic, even though I attend Church, about healings because I've seen so many of them are placebo psychological healings. However I have heard and seen some very real healing events.

The reality of evolution does not deny the existence of a greater consciousness.The new Testament was not written until some 300yrs after the death of Christ.If it wasn't for King Constantine the pagan religions of Rome would still be flourishing and Christianity would be a fledgling cult.

We all evolve in this existence,whether it be by trial and error or formal study,the process can be both painful and illuminating.

What honourable god would have a chosen people of arrogant manifest destiny who do little but pray to be released from their mortal constraints?Such attitudes to me are a cop out,since we crave eternal blissful immortality with no appreciation of the wounderous things this life does offer us.

There may well be intelligence in the design but we humans may have to face the reality of not being the centre of the universe.

When was the last time a Christian scientist looked down the lense of a microscope and felt compassion for the suffering microbes?Would a superior being feel the same way about us?

With scientific discovery the boundaries and rules are rapidly changing and it will be a matter of how well we can all adapt and cope with this seemingly overwhelming change.

On ya Deuc,

yes, I appreciate where ur coming from on the skepticism, to be honest, I share that view, but the difference I guess is that I'm only cynical or skeptical of what is clearly either psychological or 'of man' i.e. the Benny Hinzes pushing people down etc...
I've been in meetings in Borneo where a couple of charismatic preachers were going at it, I saw how it all works first hand, they prayed fervently for all those who had come forward for it, and asked point blank "Who has had a touch from the Lord" ? and people would put up their hand, and the meeting would ramp up a few emotional notches, it was all very general and non specific...
I've seen people collapse at my feet with eyes rolled due to the intensity of the meeting atmosphere... but I can see through all that.

I better not tell you about 'the voices' :) or.. the 'money' or about the village in Sabah who were told that a man who is a kind of 'Mike Tyson' type who was being brought in to beat the blith out of them for not accepting Islam, who God "killed" , (3 days prayer and fasting, -he never made it to the village) or you will totally freak out :) and then tune out.

Suffice to say, if it brings true glory to God and Christ, its usually ok, if it glorifies or enriches 'man' its dodgy.

Philo makes a good point. Why not follow that one up ? sounds like it is quite verfiable. BUT.... before you do :).... IF... it turns out that in Jesus name, this person received their sight, will you make a committment to give your life to Christ ? If it will, why not make that committment now ? We have the gospels, Acts, the death and resurrection of Christ, Pauls conversion etc... Imagine, suddenly finding out ITS ALL TRUE ? :) (sorry for the shout)

I've said all I need to about ID/evolution.

I would like to thank Jose - his historic references to images and stars and “catholic voodoo” has just made me realise what ID is really about.

It is here to explain the new "miracles".

It is the modern reasoning which proves, unconditionally, how an image of the Virgin Mary can appear on a cheese sandwich or the inkblots of a psychologists personality test.

It is the new wonder of the age which will draw the gullible back to the "mother church" and ensure a good supply of child victims are available for corruption by the priesthood.

If he were not eternal, God would be turning in his grave at all this ID bunkum.

Scout,
Why didn't God use his power for somethink good like stopping the holocaust?
We are the people who make these enormous problems for ourselves. God is not a robot on wheels that follows us everywhere and cleaning up all the mess we make. Responsibility is a part of freedom.

Pericles,
Exactly. There is no place where that view of the stars can be found. The point is, NASA examined the pattern and found that it was a perfect match, only it was in reverse. Does anyone think a forger playing with ink and a cheese sandwich could get that exact? In 1531?