Lexi,

Actually something IS working, and the Indigenous people are doing it themselves, without waiting for either their elites or kind-hearted whites to do it for them: university education. Currently, about a quarter of young Indigenous people can expect to graduate from university at some time. In 2009, the latest year of data, there were by far record commencements (up 12 % on 2008) and enrolments (10 %), and close to record graduations.

Think of it this way:

* there are currently about nine thousand Indigenous people aged twenty;

* in 2009, 4,832 Indigenous people commenced university courses;

* nearly ten and a half thousand Indigenous people were enrolled in university courses;

* around fourteen hundred Indigenous people graduated from university courses in 2009, bringing the total to over twenty five thousand;

* by 2020, close to fifty thousand Indigenous people will have graduated from university courses, a quarter or more at post-graduate level;

* there was a massive boom, about 40 %, in the Indigenous birth-rate from the late eighties onwards, to 12,000 in each age-group.

Where are most of those students and graduates ? In the cities, where most of them have been raised, and where they will spend their working lives. So here's a couple of questions:

* are remote communities dynamic, full of promise, bursting with potential - or are they dead in the water ? Are they part of the problem or part of the solution ?

* are urban communities, where one in seven adults (one in five women) is a graduate, full of promise and potential ? Are they part of the problem or part of the solution ? Where is the dynamism in Indigenous social life - in remote areas or in urban areas ?

And where will the dynamism be coming from over the next few decades ?

Joe

That really is frightening Loudmouth.

That must mean the Aboriginal Affairs Department will have to expand every year, by that many employees.

Yes we do need reconciliation. I need to be reconciled to how much tax is wasted in this area.

Hasbeen,

No, not at all ! The great majority of Indigenous graduates are in the mainstream, not in Indigenous organisations - they are teachers (maybe six to seven thousand), nurses, doctors, you name it. Yes, many are in traditional 'helper' roles, in social work, etc., but as time passes, those jobs are already taken up, and new graduates have to find work outside the Indigenous industry.

My point is: the Indigenous elite, the Indigenous middle-class professionals AND the Indigenous welfare class each have different aspirational goals, economic directions and social futures. In spite of proclamations to the contrary, neither group feels much allegiance or obligation to, or for, the others, and neither should they: after all, if 40 % of the Indigenous population can make the sacrifice of years of study, quite reasonably they would feel, why can't others ? Why should people who have put in the effort feel particularly compassionate about their relations who haven't ?

So - just as Blacks in the US or Maori in NZ are doing - groups are moving off in different directions. If Indigenous unity is to be maintained (assuming there is something like unity at present), how is it to be done in such dynamic circumstances ?

Joe

Yes Joe (and RPG who clearly suffers a reading impediment) a REQUEST. Not "ban".But nice try attempting to pin me up as a fascist though.
So you know, the more you try to continue that discourse, the dumber and more disingenuous it will make you look when even my original point is quite immune.

The request (that is, ask) that I make to everyone approaching these issues to TRY to shed the black-armband mindset, or otherwise they cannot view this topic rationally.
In fact, let's instead pretend that we're all English and the Aborigines are all Scottish- because when the Scots made quite a reasonable request for a local parliament (being the traditional owners of that part of Britain presently an annexed state in a federation), what did the "whiny" Poms do? They agreed to their request, and they did it without bitching like you lot are now.

When you browse English forums on issues of Scottish Independence, do you see whiny rubbish like "they should be thankful" or "oh but they secretly enjoy the power of complaining at us" or "600 years ago some Scottish king did this to us so we shouldn't be sorry" to the extent that Australians whinge whenever ANY Aboriginal issue comes up?
No.
That is my point.
We are whinier than anybody else, and are letting a serious topic about civic rights be turned into a circus full of pettiness.
This is why my patience is very low.

Sorry, Hazza, I still don't know what you are on about. Who are you whingeing about now ? Not that I'm saying that you don't have a right to whinge, but so does everybody else.

Run out of patience all you like, implicitly threaten violence in that way, but people will still exercise their rights to free speech, to their opinions.

And surely even you can see the value in having a better idea of what people think ? People can't be bullied, Hazza, into supporting one position or another, and they certainly have the right to raise queries about something.

Are you demanding support for reconciliation, without question ? Because I have many questions and you might have a job labelling me as some fascist, right-wing nut-job.

Personally, I believe that, of course, reconciliation must come about - but AFTER the gaps have been closed, and closed to the satisfaction of the Indigenous people. Anything before then is almost bound to be fraudulent, a sell-out, like so many other panaceas have been: great for the careers of some, but meaningless to the lives of the great majority of Indigenous people.

After forty-odd years in the 'business', I don't want to waste time on anything which does not bring meaningful and material change to the lives of Indigenous people. I don't care about the careers of the elites, they're always going to do okay. But I'm learning to listen to what people have to say on all the issues affecting the majority of indigenous people, not the tiny minority.

Joe Lane

Joe (Loudmouth):

You should get a different name, "Loudmouth" doesn't suit you at all.
You sound lovely. And Thank You for the information. Wow! I had no idea - the statistics you give are impressive - (a sign of hope,
definitely). Of course, there are still many questions that need answers that I still can't quite work out. If some can succeed so brilliantly, why are there still so many who don't? And, would having rights enshrined in law, help those being mistreated out in the outback/rural areas where many of the problems exist? I imagine it would take a great deal of character to get over being treated as second-class citizens - to still believe that you could succeed in life. That would be a very huge mind-set to overcome. Also if you train somebody to be dependent on others - it would be a massive job to get them to think and believe in themselves.