Posted by divine_msn, Thursday, 2 December 2010 11:19:36 PM

You are very selective in what you comment on re abuse of aboriginal women. I haven't denied the stats re domestic violence and how aboriginal women are 40 TIMES more likely to be abused than the rest of the community. However, the INTERVENTION has not implemented the 80 recommendations of the 'Little Children Are Sacred' report; nor have you stated that the figures re jailing and deaths in custody of aboriginal men is higher than under the Apartheid regime in Sth Africa.In over 3 yrs of the Intervention,less than a handful of men have been arrested let alone convicted. You left out,that too many young aboriginal girls are sexually abused by white men - truck drivers, who 'own' a girl? oOu didn't mention that the programs that were helping victims of domestic violence leave violent men was stopped, nor the overall point, that there were 12 Reports prior to the Little Children etc(which in fact was NT study) and the Howard govt ignored them.
There've been many people including from the Unions, MUA, CFMEU who, unlike the federal govt are assisting the people and built perhaps the first house -when govt money has gone in beaurecratic costs, brand new Toyota 4 wheel drives, forcing indigenous people from their land, land aquisitions and a high increase in the number of mining applications - from about 240-490.
You also ignore the over-riding fact, that when you treat people with racism and oppression, social 'ills' are the result. It's also been proved in many countries, that denying people from decision making(as the report recommended) doesn't achieve positive outcomes.
How many of the aboriginal kids with serious ear problems have been seen by a ENT specialist?I suggest none to a few. There are many aboriginal people who do not agree with the Intervention!

Do I have the wrong thread? I thought this was about wearing of the burqua?

I went to my local aboriginal culture centre to hear a young man from the NT;I also went to Sydney on Oct 29,to the Jobs With Justice rally,where the same aboriginal man from the NT spoke about how aboriginal workers are only being paid CentreLink payments,50% of which is quarantined, while they work next to non-aboriginal people on award wages. A young aboriginal man with a broken arm was forced to work on a construction site, or threatened with no income - this would not happen on any other site, due to OH&S laws - out of sight, do what you like.There was great support from the Unions both times. The MUA rep said he was embarrassed and ashamed. I've read first hand reports of many who've been to the NT!
The NT govt has decreed, that indigenous language cannot be used/taught in the first 4 hours of school days, even though experts have stated, that in order for kids to learn to read, you teach them in their native tongue first, then English - this decree by the govt is a blatant attempt to stamp out indigenous language and culture. Non-aboriginal people scream about 'new arrivals' not adapting to our way of life, but govts think it doesn't apply in aboriginal communities. I suggest you read the National Indigenous Times; articles on line at GreenLeft; the Koori Mail(I think)and go on site to the Intervention site! Read Mick & Pat Dodson, or Larissa Bernhardt, or Mike Munro on the Intervention - not 'lamestream' media!

I suggest Liz45 get a job as a Health Worker in any one of the dysfunctional communities and see how long it takes to colour her world REAL. BTW it is hard for medical intervention to occur - Community Nurse/(Indigenous)Health Worker level through to Specialist Medicos unless parents bring children to be treated. Seriously there is plenty of unnecessary death and irreversable damage brought about by ignorance, apathy and neglect apart from any meditated abuse.

BTW Aboriginal men in jail are mostly there for serious crimes OR repeat repeat repeat minor offences and chronic fine evasion - in which case the sentence is usually short. They are less likely these days to be handed a custodial sentence due to 'cultural sensitivity' factors but insist on facing the justice system with far greater regularly than the average bear.

However the discussion is about burqa banning and not once has Liz45 addressed any of the points or questions I've posed regarding her/his viewpoints on the subject.

For instance - does Liz45 support the practice of cultural traditions imported from other countries which deny a woman any control over her life choices? The burqa is merely an external, albeit confronting symbol of this culture.

Does Liz45 support or reject the suggestion that adjusting the burqa so that face and identity of the wearer are discernable may be a reasonable solution/compromise to a cultural clash? Does Liz45 believe that immigrants adapt to a new environment or must the new environment adjust to satisfy the newcomer? These are the issues.

divine_msn-The number of women in Australia wearing a burqa would be lucky to reach 1% of the female population. Don't you think it's a bit hysterical carrying on like this? As I said earlier, a small percentage of men act violently when drunk; should we refuse all men the right to drink alcohol? Then whey should we ban the burqa when a small number of middle eastern men oppress women by forcing them to cover themselves.There is no sense or logic to this hysteria?
The idea that women couldn't make up their own mind to wear a burqa - that it is forced on them by a man/men, negates any idea that these women are intelligent beings making a decision for themselves - you or I may not see any sense in it, but it's not a crime, so why the nonsense. This is a form of oppression - others wanting to enshrine into law what a person wears - legally! You all contradict yourselves!

Someone earlier raised the question of how Muslim men "own" women by handing them from father to husband etc? Excuse me, what planet have you been on, don't fathers in this country do exactly the same thing?Mine did over 40 yrs ago? Watch weekend papers, news clips etc?

Wasn't it the norm for women to take their husband's name(has nothing to do with legality) and didn't women only promise to 'love and obey' in our marriage service? I did in 1962 - it was the norm, didn't know any better - but I grew up! Phew, thank goodness!Western society has heaps of oppressive attitudes to women and girls. Women like me have been struggling against them for years!
Have you been to the NT? What is your experiences?

Liz45
Western Society has heaps of oppressive attitudes to Women and Girls.

Indeed it does, all the more reason to ban the wearing of the burqa, heaven knows we don’t need to introduce any more kinds of oppression. Although it is still hard to get past the double standard mind set to get a conviction in a rape trial here at least we do have something set in place to try to get justice for women, in these burqa countries they execute the woman for the rape. It’s a sure bet rapes don’t get reported there too often. Although it probably happens just as much there as it does here.

As you say the male hierarchy in the Christian religions were and are in some cases still as ignorant and small minded in their attitude to women as the Muslim leaders. A good reason to be wary of all religions and their man decreed interpretation of rules and symbols.

All these doctrines are written and interpreted from a male point of view. As a woman I hate the sight of any religious restrictions on women. Unfortunately a lot of women allow themselves to be brainwashed into believing this stuff. These are the women who say they wear the Burqa by choice. They are just as ridiculous and stupid as the nuns who wear their silly outfits. Weren’t the nuns a cruel lot too, to the poor little orphans in their care. Incidentally nun’s outfits never stopped them from being raped by soldiers in war zones. So much for a sexless outfit detering rape.

It is not society that is intolerant of religions but religions who are intolerant and aloof from the society around them who are the problem.

All agree there is one supreme God, so why the constant religious conflict. Doctrines; written and enforced by male priests(witchdoctors )that’s where the trouble lies.
Countless wars have been fought over these stupid religious apartheid practices.

Ban the damm burqa along with nun’s robes, Turbins and Jewish saucer hats and the world will be better for it. Women in particular.