John Stone, you rock! Never thought I'd say that but I cannot find one statement in this piece that does not ring true. My bullsxxt detector has been off the Richter scale since Julia and Tony piously announced this sideshow. Empty symbolism like this makes me weep for the future of indigenous Australians - always being offered the glass beads, never a seat at the table. Let's focus on jobs, education and integration and really "close the gap". Money wasted on this pointless exercise could actually build a school room, employ people, create some wealth and self-sufficiency within a community - actually change lives for the better, build a bit of pride. Time we grew up and stopped tinkering with the ephemera and focused on the core first. Get that right then we can all waste our days splitting hairs.

John Stone, how did you vote in the 1967 Aboriginal recognition Referendum? By the tone of your dismissive article, could it have been a 'No'?

Your guess at the next referendum outcome is probably equally wide of the mark.
In 1967, 90.77% of Australians voted yes on the question : 'Do you approve the proposed law for the alteration of the Constitution entitled 'An Act to alter the Constitution so as to omit certain words relating to the people of the Aboriginal race in any state so that Aboriginals are to be counted in reckoning the population?'

Most people thought they were voting for a change, for the better, not only for incusion in the census, but by implication, also amending the constitution to ensure that no such blatently racist laws are ever directed against indiginous Australians ever again. Sadly that proved not to be the case, in a subsequent High Court Case. The NT intervention fiasco a case in point.

So it’s up to us now to fix the remaining gaps, by referendum:
* Declaring that laws may only benefit Aboriginal and Torres Strait Australians, and
* Recognising Aboriginal and Torres Strait custodianship of the land and indigenous law. A treaty under this clause would put us in league with other treaty countries like New Zealand and Canada.

For some National Party members this may all sound like dangerous dreaming, but most decent Australians do want some genuine reconcilliation that goes well beyond mere symbollism in the pre-amble. If the 1967 vote is any guide, real change will deliver powerful reconcilliation, beating empty platitudes at the ballot box every time. It maybe new for us, but Britain in most other Commonwealth Countries, found that superimposing British law on native law made governance possible, until the yearning of replublicanism became too irresistable for some. We're merely taking a leaf from their history books.

For 200 years we have promoted, heavily financed and legislated to maintain the differences between the indigenous peoples and everyone else in this land, to the detriment of all.
The differences continued and widened, year after year.

Such is the entrenched thinking now. Each day we show by paternalistic efforts that there are differences and then do even more to ensure that the situation stays that way.
Hence the referendum. An ill-informed action by the Brown/Gillard consortium, not required in any way.

We have fulfilled our obligations to the original inhabitants in many other ways as well, not the least of which has been through being fair-minded, decent living, taxpaying Australians for all those years, years in which the same indigenous people became a full time, government sponsored and costly welfare group and who now sadly accept this as their right, their way of life. Normal practice!

The fault in creating this aboriginal welfare state belongs to past governments of this country, yes, but even allowing for a history of bad policies, what the majority of ordinary people have achieved in 200 years, those who migrated here from countries all around the globe, should mean clearly that we do not carry any debt or obligation to anyone, anywhere, particularly indigenous people. We also died by the thousands in World Wars for this country, everyone in this country, that is.

That also means we do not need to mention it in our Parliament, ever, entrenching the "differences" between us all, because wherever people came from, they are now Australians.

We do not need to have another referendum which has an obvious political objective, designed by our feckless Prime Minister to boost her insatiable need for power by equalling or surpassing the “Sorry” statements by the previous dispossessed incumbent, thereby pandering to the Greens and their often extreme policies.

A distinctly jaundiced referendum, doomed to failure. Such action is not needed, but good policies are if only to force aborigines to become part of the greater Australia, all one people, not to make them forever a separate segment, as they are now.

John Stone
With all due respect, a question. Have you actually read the constitution? Do you know what purpose it serves?

NaomiMelb, I would have thought the short answer is Yes. Check the man's CV. What is your point? I have read it too - several times, been tested on my understanding of it too. It serves a variety of purposes. Revising the preamble to make some sort of fawning apology to a sub-set of the population is just pointless symbolism compared to the task of resolving economic inequality - something that takes more than just an avid interest in the Constitution and how best to tweak its preamble. This is nothing more than a cynical distraction from the real task of encouraging economic independence for all Australians. The fact it gains any traction at all is just a sad reflection of what a shallow bunch we have become.

the preamble...is an act
it is not part of the constitution

the constitution is part of the act...voted on in briton
and then qualified..by the some voters.in australia

to add in mention of the first people..is as simple as validating a new act..by both houses...and leaving the body of the constitution as ratiefied previously...[with its current preamble]..adding only the new preamble...before it

it will then be known as
the constitutional ratification act...of 2011

that begins..as follows

the first people of these lands...unnamed by its first people
yet variously called...'great south land'...'Van Die Mens land'..[of the peoples land]...and as nieuwe holland..[new netherlands]..terra nulious..australus...and in time..australia

being bounded by sea...who have overcome systematic poisening and active genocide and many other autocities done by good people..for wrong reason..yet hold hope of betternment for all...

being as one people..as enjoined trustes;..as tennents in common...as each individually..being a part of the land..[these lands]..as well as the life essence residing.surving..thriving upon it

like our hand..is a part of our body..we thus join the goodwill..of our others..and do join with the people origonal..and un-origonal..to ratify certainty...for our future unborn...and peace for our honoured ancestors

seeing the values of good will to all...and the cetainty of stable representative governance equally due..as serving us all..by love of gods creation..and care..dutry due to the land...

embodying..the dust of our common ancestors...

do hereby declare our concensual combined will
to unite in a concensus of goodwill and reason..in gods ever living moment...gods live time..[now]..that recognises the past as being past...and the future...before us

that certainty..be accorded to us all...we support and regonise the reasoning...and wisdom..of the following

[add in preamble...and PRESENT constitution
get both houses to vote..[pass it]...then offer its sence to the first people..to individually*...ratify it

then reform the common wealth into 550 states..
chapter vi..[see 121]..

each with a male and femail govenor[general]
who is both ombudsman...and highest appeal level..of law...
that jointly [via mens/womens circles]..ratifies..and oversees... each..'states'..governance

This is a link to the current preamble:

http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/general/constitution/preamble.htm

Hard to see the point in adding afore-mentioned fawning apology to this piece of verbose Parliament-speak, harder still to imagine ANYONE ever caring. Refer earlier post as to the more constructive path to follow.

John asks:

//Do we really need a constitutional referendum to 'recognise the special place of our first peoples'?//

Well of COURSE we do John...specially if our agenda is to:

-"Abolish the white race" (and it's socially constructed power structures)

http://racetraitor.org/abolish.html

And if you wish to undermine any sense of White solidarity, and flood whites with unremitting GUILT.. it's exactly what you would do!

Don't look at the 'Referendum' as a single event...it is part of a process. "The invevitability of gradualism"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Estate

http://www.fabian.org.au/1102.asp Most interesting to see the personalities connected to the Fabians. A high percentage of a particular ethno religious group seems to feature here too. (like with the Marxisats and Frankfurt School-same group) I can't figure out the connection yet.

Quick response, I think 97.7% of voting constituents succumbed to the nonsense and untruths in relation to the meaning and background of that referendum, but have learnt something from subsequent events, particularly the damage done to the aboriginal people by the corrosive effects of the divisive policies and disingenuous assertions about such items as the non existent “stolen generations”.

A referendum is not an event which can be untruthfully reported by a subversive media, as was done in pretending that 250,000 people walked across the Bridge to support the mendacious and divisive “sorry” campaign.

It is comforting that we occasionally see an honest sensible article like this one contributed by John Stone.

There is a plethora of nonsense, impeding action to help aboriginal people, generated from use of the victim status imposed upon them by the politicians and activists who have done such disservice to these people over the years since 1967.

The diatribes against civilization and sense, based on lies, do more harm to the politically generated victims, than ever any of the policies in place before the current political movement gained impetus. As a result of the work done by the activists supporting this corrosive political movement there are now more children than ever being removed from aboriginal families.

The policy of assimilation was working, until the idealogues attacked it, and it must now be reinstated. As many of those who were sought to be recruited to the “stolen generation” have said: “We were not stolen. We were saved”

one under god: You are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

I was doing Ok until I hit "As for "their ancient and continuing cultures" graphically chronicled in the 2007 Northern Territory Little Children are Sacred report, to take only one example, the less said about the violence-racked, female-oppressive, sexually predatory cultures of the Australian Aboriginal the better."

That may be a part of the story but it's not the whole story. Clearly there are some cultural differences between modern western values on some of those issues and traditional aboriginal culture just as there are differences to western values of 10, 20 , 50 etc years ago. That does not mean that we can't value western history even if we do say we could have done better.

The "violence-racked, female-oppressive, sexually predatory cultures" are examples of what goes wrong when people loose hope and respect for themselves and their communities.

Before reading this piece I suspect that I would have shared John Stone's views about the referendum, that comment leaves me looking a bit harder.

R0bert

i like the way you use quasi authority..to get your loaded words into print..[john]..your joining of authority...with your bias....<<As for.."their ancient and continuing cultures"..>>

this is easilly deleted...by the quasi..<<graphically chronicled in the 2007 Northern Territory Little Children are Sacred report,>>

or as in the next quote by somehighcourt judge
but lets shear one sheep at a time

<<to take only one example>>
to take one egsample...[from the report?]

ok please reveal,IT..where does it say..IN THE REPORT..<<"the less said..about the violence-racked,..female-oppressive,..sexually predatory cultures..of the Australian Aboriginal the better.">>

it seems a pretty biased ...'report'...if it decares this ammoung its findings...[lest we forget...it was rape...by the invaders..who gave us these blue eyed darkies...white enough..to be taken from the isolationist hells...whitefella put us in]

but let move on to ya..next..AUTHORITY<<..The former..chief justice..of the High Court,..Harry Gibbs,..in his essay "A Preamble: The Issues",..summed up..by asking*..!

<<whether a preamble..should "incorporate any expression of opinion or values,>>edited<<..To this..he gave a very firm//"No".>>

hey he's doing a kevi...answering his OWN question
yet note the BIT..*YOU ADDED IN-between...
that feeds into your typical BIAS

<<however firmly held..by those who may claim to be an elite,>>
or quasi authority...or people with loaded adgendas?

<<unless it is certain*..>>certain as in factually correct?
or certain in their[your]..own bigoted biased minds?

<<that those opinions>>lol..<<and values>>llol<<are generally accepted..by Australian society as a whole,>>>clearly the motivation of racuists..ensure they herd together...and in their mass..thus get heard...

over and above..the know-nothings..care nothings..of the dumbed down..public...in guilt ridden..:ape-thy..

born in ignorance..fed by hatemongers..in print and media..[or sitting in YOUR highcourts..]..casting moral judgments...based on civil juristiction obtained..by threat force and fear

but*..we at least AGREE..<<..and are likely to continue to command general acceptance?">>>..due to public IGNORANCE and APaTHY...instiled them by the fearmongers

we sold them..the old testiment...and now these churchie converts practice an eye for an eye..BECAUSE THATS WHAT THE MISSION-ry taught..the reveared ELDERS..

took a people..WHO LIVED BY COMPLET consencus
who bannished..those obeying the dark spirits..after installing...the trible markings..of their censure/bannishment upon their forms..[for all to see]

who white*fella...made into chiefs...and revered old ones...
[who's govt sanctioned..quasi authority...and special treats..[booze]
and other special powers..while genociding the true leaders..[its basdioc genocide 101...still practiced today in palistein...and the balkins]

basiclly you kill off the leaders.
re-educate..their children

leave a few retarded ones behind..to make the whole lot look bad
then go in for the theft of their cluture and future

[who then further betrayed..their family/tribes
and joined forces..with the formentioned OUT-CASTS]

so lets look what the tide brought in next

[the vuultures ganging up to prevent
the adgenda trying to fix the MANYFOLD past errors]

bah...why bother
let their words reveal their bias

putting..the debate back on one page

rob..quote<<..OUG you raised that page here>>
ie..this page
he wrote..above quote^..here

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4109&page=0

continue..quote..rob..
<<..with accusations..of racism against others.>

so lets look at that comment

funny enough..the same i rebutted..

[as reading confusingly...with john INSERTIONS..
assertions..mixed throughout]

he makes this read..LIKE a conclusion..of the.."bringing_them_home/report

but note how HE..and THEE
use it

quoting..thee..<<..'The.."violence-racked,..female-oppressive,..sexually predatory cultures"..are examples of what goes wrong..when people loose hope and respect..for themselves and their communities..>>

.recalling..your other quote..<<that comment leaves me looking a bit harder.>>

i will hold that..your of the same mind
as you were..before reading/quoting..your favourite line

ie john was feeding you..stuff you loved..
confirming a thing you allready believe

that was my main point
he wrote that specificly..
for the majority of yes men..who relied..

*affirming..your own..preconcieved bias

robert/quote..from
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4109&page=
<<I'm guessing you don't see it that way.>>

<<You now chose..to interpret my acknowledging a previous agreement
with the general thrust of what the piece is about..as accepting a portion of the piece which I'd singled out for criticism.>>

NOTE he quoted..from this*topic

my words..<<.."basiclly..you kill off the leaders.
re-educate..their children>>...etc

heck do your own research

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=bosnia+genocide+methodology&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

to repeat your own words ..back at ya
<<Is that deliberate misrepresentation..of what I'm saying
or..do you really not get it?>>

ok..lets keep..this..to
the one PAGE..[this page]

ONE under GOD makes the most sence regards this issue. There is too much RACISM against our darkies and the Constitution should be fixed.

I think, Huggins, that you are trying to have a lend of us :) OUG's contributions border on the imbecilic and I suspect that he/she is far better educated than he/she makes out, what with the exaggeratedly poor spelling and all.

I've knocked around Indigenous affairs for more than forty years now and I've seen a multitude of panaceas come and go - land rights, self-determination, a treaty, a representative body, reconciliation, sorry, stolen generation, and now constitutional something - all supposed to solve all problems at a single stroke.

What if, instead, we put all of the notions of silver bullets on the back burner, CLOSE THE GAP in all relevant fields, health, education, housing, employment, etc. and THEN - from a position of genuine equal rights - start talking about constitutional recognition, etc.? I'm sick and tired of symbolic crap which might do wonders for the careers of Indigenous hacks and show ponies and a self-appointed elite, but very little (or worse) for ordinary Indigenous people.

For example, the people themselves are closing the gap, no thanks to the elites: commencements and enrolments at universities are at record levels - 12 % more commencements than ever before, 10 % better enrolments than ever before, 12 % more students in full-degree courses than ever before. The equivalent of about 1.2 age-groups are currently enrolled, and this year the equivalent of 20 % of the 24-year-old age-group will graduate, around four a day on average.

The gap CAN be closed, and the people will do it themselves, while the elites (and their minders) are poncing around on committees and at conferences lamenting the sad state of Indigenous affairs. The people will do something about it, and kiss their elites goodbye - that is certainly my fond hope. I don't know if that is a Left or a Right position to take, but I certainly consider the elites no help to the process.

Joe Lane