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The Forum > Article Comments > Ethics should be a course for all pupils > Comments

Ethics should be a course for all pupils : Comments

By Robert Haddad, published 22/11/2010

We shouldn't assume that children who do religion classes don't need ethics as well.

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"A solution needs to be found and found immediately. But is special ethics education the only or appropriate solution to the problem? Is it possible to address the legitimate concerns of non-SRE parents without raising the ire of SRE providers?"

Yes.

Education is the duty and privilege of parents. Teachers and schools are mere helpers, should the parents need them. Certainly what the parents wish to teach their children is none of the business of the state, the church, or anyone else.

The proper way to give parents the choice over what they want their children to learn, is to provide them with education vouchers, which they can then use with any school and/or private teacher(s), religious or otherwise. Parents can then vote with their money whether to send their children to a school with or without SRE, with or without ethics-classes, as well as direct what kind of ethics are taught in such classes.

Disclosure: the voucher system idea is not mine, you can find it here: http://ldp.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1162:school-education&catid=101:policies&Itemid=290
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 22 November 2010 1:16:14 PM
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1. If SRE is a required part of the school curriculum, WHY is it always the Christian one that is taught in PUBLIC schools?

Leading to the question:

What makes Christian RE superior to Buddhism or Judaism or Hindu?

2. Why can't non-Christian children at public schools attend classes in critical thinking and ethics? Why does this upset so many Christians?

Leading to the question:

Does the Christian Church fear children will learn to question, critique and think for themselves, thereby rejecting religion altogether?

3. Why, if parents want their children to do RE, is it not the responsibility of the church they attend?

Leading to the question:

Why does the Public school system discriminate against non-Christian children?

The above question circles back to why Christianity? - there is no evidence in the past 2000 years that it delivers any ethical qualities any better than say Judaism, which has been around longer.

My then partner and I let my daughter attend RE when she was at Primary School , because she was initially interested. Her interest swiftly waned, so she wound up colouring in pictures in the library, when she could've been learning something worthy like critical thinking. She liked some of the bible stories, but at no stage was she taught how to think or question, she was expected to believe stories that were to her way of thinking just like fairy stories.

Teaching supernatural stories as if they are facts is unethical and immoral and an abuse of a child's abilities to learn.

I can't believe that in a so-called modern western country like Australia this is even a problem - it is something I'd expect to be a problem in certain Middle Eastern countries.

I have no idea if Hindu or Buddhism is taught at public schools in other countries where those religions predominate, would appreciate knowing if that is the case or if childhood indoctrination is more a characteristic of the Christian/Muslim cultures.
Posted by Johnny Rotten, Monday, 22 November 2010 1:20:33 PM
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Yuyutsu, What garbage!

So, I take my children's 'vouchers' and can send my children to any school I want to can I?

Or just those within my close region?

Those within my close region that I can afford to pay for?

Which is probably the school I send them to anyway.

I know, I'll send them from Brisbane to Kings in Sydney, on the voucher.

Why, that is an improvement!
Posted by The Blue Cross, Monday, 22 November 2010 1:23:28 PM
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*Children who do Religious Ed obtain a basis and foundaton for Ethics.*

Hardly so, Boaz. Threatening them with hellfire if they misbehave
and promising them a ticket to heaven if they comply, is just
brainwashing them into the church doctrine of hope and fear.
Even you tried it, with your post on another thread.

There is no way that the churches will give up what they claim
as their little patch, without a fight.

For if the secular system started teaching kids conflict resolution
skills, that it's in our self interest to all get along and various
aspects of ethics, the threats of hope and fear would vanish and
churches would no longer have a captive market. So better to
brainwash those kiddies whilst they are young. The nuns tried
it with me, as an innocent 5 year old, luckily they failed.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 22 November 2010 1:26:17 PM
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Dear Blue Cross,

"So, I take my children's 'vouchers' and can send my children to any school I want to can I?"

Very true.

"Or just those within my close region?"

No, anywhere you like in Australia, at least, then hopefully arrangements can be made with other governments so it could be overseas as well.

"Those within my close region that I can afford to pay for?"

You will receive the same vouchers per child as anyone else. This is tax-payers' money: if you are still unhappy about having less money than others, then either earn more, spend less, or join the communist party.

"Which is probably the school I send them to anyway."

That is up to you, but even then you can always tell them: "improve - or my child goes elsewhere". In fact, you don't even need to send your children to school - you can teach them mostly yourself with the help of private tutors, whom you pay with vouchers; or you can join with a group of other parents to create your own school.

"I know, I'll send them from Brisbane to Kings in Sydney, on the voucher."

If you wish - perhaps they have an uncle or auntie in Sydney, or perhaps you may want to relocate, or perhaps use your vouchers to improve schooling in Brisbane.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 22 November 2010 1:49:11 PM
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Secular ethics are superior to religious ethics in all ways but one - religious ethics are simplistic.

Secular ethics require consideration and effort, while religious ethics are for thoughtless and lazy people who assume that something becomes right or wrong for them simply because of an edict attributed to some imagined being.

Luckily, the religious realise this and interpret and cherry-pick their holy books using secular ethics as a basis.

There’s your ‘foundation’, Boaz.
Posted by AJ Philips, Monday, 22 November 2010 2:06:57 PM
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