Mark, I have put up with the lies, half-truths and misrepresentation from the Greens since 1967. Way back then ACF policy was to close native forests to harvesting. Nothing changes.

I like your reference to woodchipping but it could be improved on.
The public need to understand that "evil woodchips" are produced as a legitimate harvesting product. Let me elaborate.

The very best of native forest and plantation runs at about 1 of sawlog to 1 of below sawlog quality - normally woodchips. Assuming a 50% recovery of sawlog, woodchip now constitutes approximately 75% of the tree and is used for a range of common and accepted products - sawn timber, paper, MDF etc. A simple message needs to be conveyed to the public. I wonder if there is a journo or two out there with the brains to wake up to the Greens ajenda and depict them for what they really are - a bunch of troglodytes.

Good stuff Mark. Keep it up.

Don Thomson

The Greens are not green at all.

They are green on the outside as the Fabian wolf is clothed in a sheepskin.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/images/uploads/FabianWindow-1.jpg

The Greens are Fabian Socialists..by deed if not by membership.

Gillard is one
Plibersek is one
Whitlam founded them in Australia
Hawke and Keating were members

Bob Brown ? don't know but if deeds are an indicator....

http://www.openaustralia.org/senator/bob_brown/tasmania

Brown wants GLOBAL GOVERNMENT.... hmmm rather like "International Socialism" does..... strange eh.

Anyone who works toward the undermining of Australian indepenance and sovereignty is a traitor and should be treated as such.

It's called 'SEDITION'.

Climate change is a real and dangerous threat to our planet. The Greens (and the Australian media at large) akin sustainable native forestry to the deforestation occurring in developing countries that result in such enormous amounts of carbon released into the atmosphere, despite forestry being the antithesis of land clearing and deforestation. We live in a global community and a have an obligation as a developed country to continue to created renewable, carbon positive products for consumers, whilst managing our forests to continue to grow inperpetua.
The misrepresentation of sustainable native forestry by the Greens and the media does a disservice to curbing climate change and is not aligned with the broader international community.

Guardia

Tyranny does not care about the 'broader international opinion'.....

Many people talk of the Red/greens as being watermelons, green on the outside & "pinko" commie on the inside. I prefer to think of them as Unripe Guavas, green on the outside & dark red, bitter & twisted on the inside.

I saw its formation & they were all well known CARS, Communist, Anarchist, Radical, Socialists.

I have been on debate forums with them online & in person. They always had no ideas about what positive could be done, only about what to stop, all progress & jobs.

Whether it be water or forests, the stony ideologues in the Greens care nothing for the living, breathing people who are merely inconvenient, bothersome stumbling blocks on the road to a Green utopia.

It's even worse than that. Though most don't realise it, The Greens badly need backup electricity generation from waste woodchip biomass to make their dreams of a renewable (primarily solar and wind)-powered Australia even remotely viable. But, you guessed it, they're opposed to that, too.

Yes those evil greenies are the only ones talking at all about biosecurity and foreign imports (seeing Al bought up issues of independence and sovereignty).

What an evil agenda - saving forests, trying to minimise pollution of waterways and the atmosphere, and even stopping progress even if it means destroying the very planet we depend on for survival.

Those disgusting Greens.

Sheesh...talk about self-delusion.

I have been on debate forums with them online & in person. They always had no ideas about what positive could be done, only about what to stop, all progress & jobs.
Posted by Formersnag,

For this parties out-look can hardly fit the bill that you have given with that cold description of yours. The clear and wise forecast for the worlds future is to use new technologies with a hold range of new building products which don't and do not need wood.

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjameshardie.com.au%2F&rct=j&q=new%20building%20materials%202010&ei=Kqy1TNj6KYeecIuVzLII&usg=AFQjCNHvwwo0ITxh9wPV1QRARz3sV67d8Q&cad=rja

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=news&cd=1&ved=0CCMQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.marketwatch.com%2Fstory%2Faxion-international-to-hold-2010-annual-meeting-of-shareholders-on-october-22-2010-10-13%3Freflink%3DMW_news_stmp&rct=j&q=new%20building%20materials%202010&ei=fKy1TLuBIMHBcf7a-NwI&usg=AFQjCNFuXjl9k9yU4FTeqjXlJiQtVGclHA&cad=rja

And the list goes on.

The worlds people knows the strife we will all be in if we continue use old and quite frankly, unsustainable building products like wood. A small % yes! Its unavoidable in some application of construction and building, but best leave the trees for carbon storage.

Second and three world countries will deplete the existing rain-forests if they continue by 2060-plus, and this as you know, is off the table completely.

First, we’re not facing a choice between the growth of old economy jobs and the expansion of new energy jobs, but between decline and prosperity. One global economy, the clean one, is growing, and the global battle for the new jobs is on. Some countries – such as China, Germany, Spain, Portugal, and many others – are going after these jobs aggressively. The other part of the economy – the dead fuel economy – is not going to be a growth engine (with the important exception of natural gas, which may provide a useful, medium-term bridge to the future). Oil is basically at peak production globally, and coal plants are nearly impossible to build in the U.S. anymore. Even as the world demands more energy, and even as fossil fuel production continues, these companies will continue to get more efficient with labor. So don’t count on the fossil guys to create new wealth and jobs.

Formersnag,

Trees to pull the carbon.

Thats the go.

TTM

Mark,the so called greens factious latent 60's agenda,is wholly unprincipled in their quest to gain any electable status by any means possible. After spending along time in the woods,the "new greens" then magically perform an on stage low ball fling, where they can cavort and compromise with the other, so called sensible. And with these so called sensible's, particularly the grand ignoble labor party, together have sold out the artisans and those who thought they held a work ethic outside the public service. When you really look at what the green labor parties have delivered and then recognise that it is only the liberal and national parties who have an interest in defending these particular occupations or in the labor vernacular 'jobs' it does not take long to recognize who is the greatest threat to a society wanting to produce its best in a world marketplace. That's why green labor does not want to talk about their locally enforced trade barriers but endlessly rants about international barriers to trade like the latest from Prime minister Gillard and her minister Emerson.

SNAG..... dammit..now you've put me off Guava juice :) grrr..I love the stuff but now ? aaargh...I'll think of your post each time GREENS..yuk yuk.

HOW the Greens will LOVE to HATE this....

The Israeli's have found a way of using the pressure from traveling cars to generate electricity in the ROAD ! ! !

http://www.haaretz.com/news/israeli-scientists-turn-rush-hour-traffic-into-electricity-1.6588

Awwwwwww.. pat pat.. poor greens.. just when they thought all cars would be abolished and only public transport allowed... *pat*

The Australian Democrats grew in size until the point where they actually had some decisive influence on national politics: whereupon they demonstrated their lack of contact with reality, alienated the electorate and quickly disappeared from the scene. I suspect the Greens have now reached that same point. We can only hope so.

And AL bore hits another NO homer. All the people in our cities will just love that boost from Mr Simpson. Burn more fuel to make electricity? WOW! Homer! You hit the jack-pot! LOL....and not only will the people suffer more respiratory illness, but the Air will be usefull as your post.
I think a little golf clap is in order. SMILE

http://healthandenergy.com/images/smog_in_the_city.jpg

More Die from Car Pollution than Road Accidents

LONDON - Road traffic is the fastest growing source of pollution in Europe and in some countries more people are dying as a result of this air pollution than are being killed in accidents, health experts said yesterday.

A new report by the World Health Organization (WHO) showed long-term air pollution from cars in Austria, France and Switzerland triggered an extra 21,000 premature deaths per year from respiratory or heart diseases, more than the total number of annual traffic deaths in the three countries.

"Air pollution from traffic at the levels we have today does cause a major health impact," Dr Carlos Dora, of the WHO center for health and environment in Rome, told a new conference.

The report shows air pollution from cars caused 300,000 extra cases of bronchitis in children, 15,000 hospital admissions for heart disease and 162,000 asthma attacks in children in the three countries.

"The growing evidence that air pollution is causing a major health burden adds to the effects of road traffic through noise, accidents and barriers to cycling and walking, and we need to address this head on," Dora added.
[Patricia Reaney, Reuters, 16.6. 99]
Air Pollution

Source for the Following: Clean Air Regional Workshop - Fighting Air Pollution: From Plan to Action. UN Conference Centre, Bangkok, Thailand. 12-14 February 2001. Bangkok Metropolitan Administration.

*Shah, Jitendra. Integrated Air Quality Management: From Plan to Action. Paper No. 6.

Annual cost of congestion and air pollution in selected Asian cities (US$ million) --

Yes AL! Your on a winner there.

Nice try. smile.

TTM>

Now! AL. Take a good look at this picture. And I will have the Attack Skunks and Squirrels ready to deploy at my command.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_UgJT7XB2G0Y/RmMq4xOqVMI/AAAAAAAABbk/HJP0FlbI5Zg/s1600-h/hs21.gif

And They will be Armed.

smile.

TTM

http://free-extras.com/images/doh_homer_simpson-1084.htm

TTM

JonJ, I tend to agree with you.

I strongly suspect that 2010 will prove to be the high-water mark for the Greens. One need only look at the fortunes of the previous soft-left party, the Democrats.

The Democrats' vote peaked in the early 90s. In the late 90s they sided with the Howard government to introduce a contentious new tax regime, the GST. Within a decade, the Democrats vote had completely disappeared.

Rightly or wrongly, the Democrats bore the brunt of voter ire against the GST.

Today, the Greens are colluding with the Gillard government to introduce two massively unpopular programs - huge cuts to irrigation in Australia's foodbowl, and a carbon tax.

I think you are blaming the greens for something that was giong to happen regardless of the greens.
The mouth of the murray is the problem, get rid of the barrages and allow natural tidal flow, then there won't be any water problems.

"I strongly suspect that 2010 will prove to be the high-water mark for the Greens. One need only look at the fortunes of the previous soft-left party, the Democrats."

Yes Clownfish, one does hanker for earlier times, when the common labourer and tradesman knew his place in society. Lets return to the good old days when those of us that were "born to rule" knew what was best for the mass of the working class, the great unwashed and others of the lower orders! Where will it end, next thing you know woman will be demanding the vote! Off to the Melbourne Club for a good port and fine cigar. Before I go I must say "Bring back the noose, floggings to good for them!"

Paul, I'm not sure where you read all that tosh into my statement.

For your info, I myself belong to the class of common labourers.

Which is why I despise middle-class, trendy-lefty fauxialists like the Gillard Labor Party and the Greens.

No noose for me a good flogging is quite acceptable.

"Which is why I despise middle-class, trendy-lefty fauxialists like the Gillard Labor Party and the Greens."

Clownfish as a member of the Greens, I wont comment on the rank and file of the Labor Party, other than to say like Liberal Party members I've met they are generally nice people I may not agree with some of their views but I do admire them for trying to help Australia with no outward reward for the vast majority of party members. But in the Green Party people which I have known for 7 years are not by and large "trendy-lefty fauxialists" but ordinary people, workers, mothers, old blokes, students, migrants the list goes on. They are people who are committed to making Australia a better place. I consider Bob Brown one of the greats that Australia has produced and I say his contribution to Australia exceeds anything Gillard or Abbott has done thus far.
As for the Green vote has peaked! I say time will prove that to be wrong, wrong, wrong. Its a poor comparison the Greens to the Democrats, the demos killed themselves, but that's another story. We are now looking to the state election in NSW. I'm in a fairly safe Labor seat, if there is such a thing, with Ms Keneally the local member our candidate Mehreen Faruqi will, with grass roots support, go all out to win the seat from the Premier, and that's considering our vote in 2007 was 20% and a campaign budget of $8K.

It's like a straw man shooting gallery in here!
True, young radical Greens are annoying and short sighted...as are young radical Lefties of all shades, and young Liberals for that matter. Idealistic tosh? Yep, you get that from all sides.
The author might be interested in why concrete sleepers and power poles are replacing wood: They don't rot, warp or catch fire. Pretty important if you want trains to run at post 1900 speeds or you don't want regular power line collapses.
Some virgin old growth forest must be protected: the historical destruction of over 90% of native forests have destroyed water catchments (farming is to blame here too of course) and created islands so that wildlife cannot dodge the bulldozers or re-populate recovering bush.
Most sensible folks believe in native plantations...so long as some virgin old growth is protected it is not unreasonable to farm native trees. Pine is a different story. It destroys river life and eventually poisons the soil. I watched my local bushland get destroyed for pine and it completely stuffed hundreds of kilometres of creek, killing crays and fishing.
In the last election Bob Brown was the only leader to bring up issues such as fast rail infrastructure and other issues lost in Howard's fog of fear and hype. He would rather spend billions on holy wars than "waste" boom income on infrastructure and jobs!
By all means deride the young, naive and idealistic...but I find these folks preferable to the ignorant dogmatic slavish Right!

Paul, I hate to disappoint you, but there was a very telling breakdown of the Green vote published on Crikey not so long ago.

Green voters were almost exclusively inner-urban, and drawn from people whose careers were either in media, tourism/leisure and education.

Sadly, Bob Brown is becoming more and more the green-left's mirror image of that other rigidly ideological, hard-line, moralising, Senatorial wowser from Tasmania, Brian Harradine.

Clownfish, All I know is The Greens have support from more than 1,000,000 Australian voters and growing election after election. The Party is hard at work developing broad based policy without compromising principles. We are a "Problem" for those that believe they have the divine right to rule this country, just look at the carry on's of Labor and Liberal after the Federal election.
Back in 1900 there were those that were predicting the demise of the Australian Labor Party, then the third party in Australian politics, they believed that the Free Traders and Protectionist would rule Australia forever!

Keep the faith, eh Paul?

I remember an old teacher at my high school who used to faithfully put up DLP posters, every election. Kind of sweet, in a way.

Clownfish. Please there is no relationship between a progressive political party, such is The Greens, and a old reactionary party the DLP. A party that stood for nothing more than to oppose the Australian Labor Party.
p/s Clownfish, what CATHOLIC school did you attend! I hope your experience with Catholicism has not scared you for life. But one cannot attend a school run by such ratbags as catholic clergy and not be scared. The best thing the catholic monsters done for me was show me the light, now I'm an atheist.

Why the liberals preferenced the Greens is beyond me, would labor preference the DLP.

Greens= "the exasperated vanity of ignorance"

"Why the liberals preferenced the Greens is beyond me, would labor preference the DLP."

Its called politics. The Liberal Party not being a party of any real principles are likely to hop into bed with anyone, but their bed is rather crowded these day with big mining, big coal and big tobacco just to name a few who they share their bed with, and their old bitch is always in there, big business. Greens wont be hopping into the Liberals bed, its to full of vested interests, don't know what you might catch, cronyism, exploitation the list goes on.

Who votes Green? The Chaser knows,

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/08/25/greensvoters/

I agree The greens are definitely not liberal.

Ps the only polie that was prepared to stand (and fall on principle was Mr Turnbull).
The greens are unprincipled, authoritarian, hypocritical prigs.

cornflower that chaser is priceless!

Pedestrian there must be Greens you know who I don't, as I am yet to come across one who is a "unprincipled, authoritarian, hypocritical prig(s)" But then again it is a very diverse political party and such types may well be hanging out with you.
Mr Turnbull, as saints are big in the news these days maybe you can start a movement for the canonization of Blessed Malcolm Turnbull. The Pope can make him Saint Malcolm of the Merchant Bank, Australia's second saint.

I was referring to the leaders of the party. as the chasers so eloquently put most green voters would not have a clue ast exactly what they are supporting. As for your rancor towards the successful , its exactly what i would expect . As Alexi Sayle said of his Marxist parents " they were not opposed to power they just wanted it for them selves"

Paul, you obviously have not met your Dear Leaders, Bob Il-Brown, and Lee-Jong Rihannon.

"The greens (leadership) are unprincipled, authoritarian, hypocritical prigs." Now there is some rancor, I added the word 'leadership' as I took it you were referring to all Greens.
"as the chasers so eloquently put most green voters would not have a clue ast exactly what they are supporting" Is this statement based on what these 'Chasers' say or is there some stats that support your argument. I would have thought the average Green voter is some what more politically aware that the average voter for the main two parties. I don't have any evidence from an episode of The Chasers to support my thinking, just being out and about talking to people (voters).
"As for your rancor towards the successful". I assume this is in reference to St.Malcolm of the Merchant Bank. No I don't agree with much of his politics, don't hate the man, I did take notice when he said "vote for a republic." Is he successful, depends what yardstick you are measuring success, if it just ones ability to make money then Turnbull is successful, if its striving to gain the Prime Ministership of Australia then at this point in time he is unsuccessful.

"Bob Il-Brown, and Lee-Jong Rihannon", Clownfish is this some reference to North Korea? No I don't known Bob Brown and Lee Rhiannon although I have a brief introduction to both. As you know Bob Brown has stamped himself as one of the greats of Australian politics. I am of the opinion that Lee Rhiannon should be the next federal leader, but Bob will be there for a little while yet, working tirelessly for Australia and all its wonderful people.

Decades ago lots of decent people were members of the CPA , very few were consciously Stalinist , Mr Arons did rather reveal the interesting background of 'lee'.
I know a few green voters , decent well meaning , but often narrow, they support the party because of a particular issue that animates them or out of a sincere but rather sentimental concern for ' environment' -something that is a long way from where they live.
The greens (the party) have a lot of policy's that have nothing to do with caring for the environment.

"The greens (the party) have a lot of policy's that have nothing to do with caring for the environment."
Pedestrian I would hope so. The Greens are a broad based party with detailed policy on a wide range of issues, health education etc,etc, as important as the environment is it is not the be all and end all. One issue parties will always get 1 to 2% of the vote but that's all they will ever get. If its a local government election and you ask a Greens candidate "Where do stand on local garbage services?" and he answers "Save the rain forest" then don't vote for him or her.

And many of the 'non environment' policy's are interesting.
Often economically literate , some times bad and/or totally unworkable.
The greens desire to enforce compulsory collective management costs upon Australia's artists and to retrospectively impose the resale royalty upon art purchased decades ago is a small example - it is simply, constitutionally, not on. The reason for this authoritarian draconian nonsense is in your party's words: 'to guarantee the viability of the collective management'.

I note that you prefer not to answer the little matter of 'Lee's' attitude to the invasion of Czechoslovakia.

Pedestrian, I think the Greens have put Lee's past into the Memory Hole.

Speaking of her actions as a 17 year old high school student.
Lee Rhiannon said:
"I did not support the invasion of Czechoslovakia." end of story.

Rather than try to dig up some dirt on Lee lets see where the war mongers of the ALP and Liberal Party of Australia stand. They stand accused, as lackey's of America, of sending tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children to their deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan not in 1968 but today, yes today in 2010. Their cowardly leaders, safe in Canberra, might not pull the trigger but they are as guilty as those that do. No one in the Greens has 'blood on their hands' but plenty in the Labor and Liberal parties do.

That is not Arons take on it.

The demographic of Australian green voters resembles the demographic of British Liberal voters; a Left ,lower case, liberal group , however there is more than a hint of absolutist authoritarian Left about the behavior of some of the Greens leadership.
I understand that Bob is not all that fond of 'lee'.

"I understand that Bob is not all that fond of 'lee'.

'I understand' or 'they say' Pedestrian have you been in communications with Bob lately, or is this a reference to Bob being gay or what, Bob don't like women'. I consulted my clairvoyant Madame Zelder and she told me that in a past life Tony Abbott was Adolph Hitler, I now demand that Abbott prove he is not the reincarnation of Hitler. My rubbish has just as much credence as rubbish from some bloke named Arons.

No comment on the parties of war mongers Labor and Liberal.