I am not a historian nor economist but the more I read the more I come to see the similarities between the US and China though their differences aren't lost on me either. It seems to be a case of Tribal issues and power struggles neither of which are going to leave us. I feel our best bet for a solution would be to find common understanding.

As an Australian my main concern for siding with China in any form is what that means to human rights in the future. Now I am not attacking China's human rights as I'm sure they are justified in their own minds (running such a large country is probably ugly work) such as are ALL countries self justified. But I would hope that a sense of truth can be brought about. I would be lying if I said that I'm ok with it either. I can say the same for the US and Australia, though I feel safer that any human rights would be more justly treated in the latter.

To me the discussion is not about Western values overthrowing Chinese imperialism but rather a universal discussion that affects us all on this planet.

China has a right to NOT want to become 'democratic' if it means what the West calls democracy. But China shouldn't avoid any form of democracy if it could help the Chinese people either. But who has the right to define and enforce 'democracy'?

In the end those who have power are not going to let go of it easily, whether US or China. Nor probably would I. I think the best thing we could do is understand human behavior when it comes to power and help the powerful (whether Chinese or US) see just what their use of power is doing to people all over the world, as these days we live in an ever more increasingly unified world. Maybe we could help each other in this respect as I feel the consequences of such help would have far reaching global implications towards a safer planet for all.

Snowtiger,have a look at the human rights abuses in the USA.Supension of habeaus corpus,Obama's preventative dententionetc.FBI agents are now smashing down the doors of peace activists,puttung guns in their faces and taking personal items.If the USA is almost a facist state,then we are not far behind.

I have noticed you write this on a number of occasions, Arjay.

>>human rights abuses in the USA.Supension of habeaus corpus,Obama's preventative dententionetc<<

I was not aware that habeas corpus has been suspended. Could you provide details?

The last I heard was that Obama had issued an executive order stating precisely the opposite:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/ClosureOfGuantanamoDetentionFacilities/

"The individuals currently detained at Guantánamo have the constitutional privilege of the writ of habeas corpus."

This effectively annulled part of GW Bush's Military Commissions Act of 2006, which stated that

"No court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed by or on behalf of an alien detained by the United States who has been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination."

I am aware that the situation changes quite quickly, so there may be some later information that you can provide.

But I'm pretty sure that habeas corpus is alive and well - at least in theory - right now in the United States.

Pericles,If you are a suspected terrorist in the USA,then all bets are off in terms of personal liberties.Bush brought in the Patriot Act which allows supected terrorists to be detained indefinitely, without trial or legal council.This presidential order negates habeas corpus for supected terrorists.Have you evidence to the contrary?

Obama has brought in 'Preventative Dentention'.I've seen no order from him that recinds this either.Obama now wants to make assassination of suspected terrorists legal.Can you provide evidence that he wants to recind this edict also?

TurnRightThenLeft, you mentioned the Diaoyu Islands. I posted three comments to Nicholas Kristof/Look Out for the Diaoyu Islands/the New York Times. My comments are 317, 318 and 319.

The Chinese traditional tributary system was China's security system. The Chinese could not and cannot conceive of any other international relations and security arrangement like NATO, the US-Australian, -Korean or -Japanese Security Treaty. They see these bilateral or multilateral arrangements as the tools for American domination.

When the Western Powers thrust into East Asia in the nineteenth century, China did not take the responsibility of protecting what it had long deemed its vassals or proteges. Generally, on the contrary, it wavered, evaded and disavowed. Each of these "vassals" had to protect itself separately on its own in a way it thought best. Today the Chinese think they have an inherent, natural title to what they disavowed. Unnan City, Japan

Mac, you know a lot about China. You said you have long suspected that the Middle Kingdom has some scores to settle, particularly with Japan, perhaps that process has already started. Australia and Japan cannot see eye to eye on everything, but does Australia have unfinished scores with Japan after it signed the San Francisco Peace Treaty with Japan in 1951?

There have been three waves of antiforeign sentiments in post-war China. The first wave arose around 1950; it was against the United States, not against Japan. The second wave was around 1960 against the Soviet Union, not against Japan. These waves were all artificially made by the Chinese Communist Party.

China was isolated in international affairs with its economy completely devastated because of Mao's bigtory. It made a kind of rapprochement with the United States to alleviate its isolation. Mao and other leaders had another aim in this rapprochement, which was to draw economic assistance and cooperation from Japan. They calculated, quite correctly, that Japan would not dare to have formal, good relations with Beijing if they did not have fences first mended with the United States.

China and Japan agreed to normalize relations in 1972 and signed a peace treaty in 1978.
The third wave was directed against Japan after 1978. It was started by Chairman Jiang Zemin in 1995 with the aim of deflecting people's discontents which were attendant on economic liberalization.

Japan sent billions of dollars as gestures of apology but the Chinese people have been kept in the dark about this as about many other things.