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The Forum > Article Comments > Flying the flag, faking the news > Comments

Flying the flag, faking the news : Comments

By John Pilger, published 8/9/2010

Edward Bernays, the American nephew of Sigmund Freud, is said to have invented modern propaganda.

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Ozandy - why are people prepared to believe the most outrageous nonsense simply because it reinforces their beliefs? The actual figure for Iraqis killed as a direct result of the US-led invasion is something like 60,000 - which should be enough for anyone. Why should anyone want to boost the figure by 15 times or so, particularly as the resulting one million figure is simply ridiculous? It shows how uninterested commentators like Pilger are in balanced judgement. I gave examples of just why it the figure is ridiculous in the original post but I'll give another. In World War II, the RAF deliberately targeted civilian populations in Germany, flattened vast urban centres and caused major fire storms. Death toll? Top estimate is about 800,000. The two atomic bombs dropped on Japan? The total death toll is something like one quarter of Pilger's figure - in itself an exageration of the original John Hopkins estimate.
If you want more examples I can give them.
Posted by Curmudgeon, Thursday, 9 September 2010 11:34:21 AM
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Apologies for the misquote Pericles.
Curmudgon: repeating a figure does not justify it. Where did the 60,000 figure come from? I suspect it is the absolute minimum number the military could release without get laughed at.
The 60,000 is the US figure without methodology explained.
The Million + figure is from independent research, published along with methodology and raw data.
They didn't bomb just one city using WW2 explosives, they dropped more tonnage than WW2, using much more powerful bombs, on more populous cities, over an extended time. Also WW2 was justified because actual invasion was involved. In this war only the US (and thanks to Howard, us) are aggressors.
Forget cute comparisons and look at the research on the ground.
You are right that 60,000 deaths "should be enough for anyone", but the US persists to this day to kill innocent civilians in foreign countries. They are not "fighting terrorism", they are committing it!
Do you still think it was about "WMD"s or "regime change"? Even Wall St knows it was all about oil!
Posted by Ozandy, Thursday, 9 September 2010 12:55:43 PM
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Ozandy - no, none of that excuses you of supporting rank nonsense. The 60,000 figure comes from some web site that counts actual deaths.. its a rough figure because I'm going from memory (it might be closer to 80,000 by the end). The name of the web site is actually given in the resarch Pilger cites which you should look at it - its online - and in the reaction to it. The paper he cites caused a storm of reaction because the death toll it calculated was so ridiculous - even for the detractors of the US campaign. No one but a handful such as Pilger agreed with it - peer reviewed or not. Cute comparison! No, the comparison was just and quite accurate.. the US coalition most certainly did not mass bomb civilian areas. The RAF was forced into mass bombing precisely because it did not have modern weaponry and was attacking at night. It aimed for high civilian casualties! And it still didn't get the John Hopkins-Pilger death toll.
In any case the paper Pilger refers to says everyone died from gunshot wounds, not bombs at all - look it up - which makes the claim even more incredible.
People make these claims, and are supported by others, without any real idea what they mean in reality or even the problems involved in disposing of, say, 100,000 bodies, simply because it suits their political leanings.
Actually I shouldn't even react to this nonsense, but it is difficult to leave it unchallenged whne it is so obviously wrong.
Posted by Curmudgeon, Thursday, 9 September 2010 2:27:36 PM
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I don't agree with Pilger's socialism but he does speak the truth about the wars and injustice perpetrated on this planet.

The US Federal Reserve and all the other Global Reserve Banks have for centuries financed and fostered wars for profit.Nothing has changed.
Posted by Arjay, Friday, 10 September 2010 5:26:43 PM
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When does he do that, Arjay?

Certainly not in this article.

This buffoon won the Sydney Peace prize, which in itself demonstrates that he is a serious menace.

His relentless support, for disgraceful fabrication, has been amply demonstrated.

If he has any faculty to identify the truth, he uses it only to ensure that he says the opposite.

Despite the fact that communist regimes have murdered millions, this subversive always aligns himself with the communist side, and uses such characterisations as “murderous thugs” for the U.S. and the West.

In a post 9/11 article, on the Iraq War, he starts,” The irresponsibility of this conflict is breathtaking. It is not about terrorism. As Blair and Bush stoop to the level of the criminal…..”
Posted by Leo Lane, Saturday, 11 September 2010 3:50:56 PM
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Leo Lane pull your head in.Go to http://ae911tuth.org/ If you can disprove the scientific facts there,then you can make yourself a lot of money. Put your brain in gear before engaging the key board.

Pilger speaks the truth.
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 10:48:23 PM
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