For those sheltered souls who have not yet taken succour of the freedom of our enlightened Victorian law.....let me make this point.

Displaying a Swastika in Melbourne, perhaps outside a synagogue or.. even holding one up in public, is probably very illegal. Wearing apparel with swastika's on them is probably very illegal.

I say "probably" because it would depend on a test case of our Racial and Religious Tolerance Act, which prohibits behavior in public which could incite hatred against people based on their race or religion.

To me, the Burqa has just as strong a symbolic value of hate/oppression/victimization, as the Swastika does for the Jew.

FALL OF CONSTANTINOPLE.
One only need to imagine the feeling of a Byzantine when the bejewelled crown of the Empire..Constantinople...fell to the Muslim Turks. Even they had never seen anything like the Haggia Sofia Church and it's magnificence.
Quickly the Muslims turned this emblem of Christendom into a symbol of defeat, disgrace, denial of human rights, humiliation and began to proclaim "Allah is one God and Muhammad is his prophet" from minarets constructed onto the building.

300 yrs INVASION
Thereupon the Turks began a 300 yrs invasion of Europe..to rape, pillage, conquer and contrary to the Nat Geo doco today which said "recruit" boys for the Jannisary corps.... (I almost puked when I heard that) no..they TOOK TRIBUTE from each conquered land of 500 boys annually ripped from their families to be brainwashed and trained as expendable mercinaries in the service of the Sultan. Child Soldiers anyone?
Soon we remember "Liberation Day" for Vienna.. September 11th 1683
On that day..the Muslims were stopped and turned back. It's also why we speak English instead of Arabic.

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the last day...Until they are subjected" Quran 9:29

Perhaps some 'civics' lessons would be in order.

We might say "any symbol which incites hatred" must be banned.

Ok...

Yamulka ? Offensive to Arabs.
Cross ? Offensive to Arabs/Muslims
Burqa ? Offensive to Christians and educated atheists.(such as Proxy)

But 'which' of these actually incites hatred of others because of their race or religion ? It's an important point and must be based on, and connected to, legitimate connotations of the particular garment/symbol.

Yamulka ? nope..Jews were mostly victims not oppressors (Arabs and Socialists might disagree on this)

Cross ? "I give you a new commandment, that you love one another"

Burqa ?

-"Dominate the world in the name of Islam" (9.29)
-"Jews and Christians are cursed because of their beliefs" (9:30)
-"Kill Jews so the last hour can come" (Muhammad of Islam-Hadith)

Yep..I know which symbol/garment is the only one to incite true hatred... do you?

agir <"Yep..I know which symbol/garment is the only one to incite true hatred... do you?"

I am sure that showing any of the symbols you mentioned in some countries of the world would incite hatred- as would showing the Christian symbol of the cross upset some people in some countries.

However, I know for sure who tries to incite hatred towards Muslims on this site AGIR - It's YOU!

Dear grateful
Thank you for that link and I will certainly follow through.
If you know of Muslim women who would be willing to speak about this on the forum, I for one would be very interested in their point of view on both wearing the burqa, and the West's debate about the garment.

As I said, MAREELORRAIN, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion.

However, others are equally entitled to hold a different view.

Imposing your view on others, over a piece of clothing, would appear overly oppressive.

All your "reasons" appear entirely self-generated - imagining how the wearer may feel, how their menfolk feel and so on. Sounds more like a projection of your own emotions than anything particularly logical.

Amicus has precisely the same view. He doesn't like something, so he wants public reinforcement of his prejudice:

>>we should not tolerate this behavior in our society and we "feel" sickened knowing this is what's going on - I know I feel sickened by it because I "feel" sickened by it.<<

How... sickening for you.

This is Australia. We value our freedoms. At least, I thought we did.

>>your logic is that this intolerant religion can impose whatever it likes because we should be tolerant to all aspects of other peoples lives<<

My position is that we should not feel it necessary to impose "whatever we like" on other people, because we should respect the legitimate choices that they make.

>>...why should we tolerate this hideous practice by a few of the extreme intolerant of this world? Because it offends your precious sensitivity and world view?<<

My "precious sensitivity" remains untouched. I do however expect a different level of tolerance to exist here in Australia, than in countries whose government feels that it can control what its citizens wear.

>>Your attempt to reduce this debate to appear trivial<<

I don't consider personal freedom trivial, Amicus. Far from it. I appear place a far higher value on it, for example, than you.

Talking of "precious sensitivity"...

>>To me, the Burqa has just as strong a symbolic value of hate/oppression/victimization, as the Swastika does for the Jew<<

Hmmm. A garment worn by women, who according to some people here are powerless to make a decision on their own, is in your eyes, a symbol equivalent to that whose wearers practiced mass murder.

I think it might be time to get those eyes tested, Boaz.

pericles "This is Australia. We value our freedoms.", and of anyone else here?

No of course not, not if it affects our sensitive nature, it's perfectly acceptable evidently for part of the community to impose medieval traditions on other Australians .. after all "they have their freedom"

I don't necessary want to legislate against a specific article of clothing. I can see the issues with that.

I'd prefer social pressure on the people enforcing this tradition on women, but clearly this falls within their freedom to impose whatever they like, because "we're so tolerant"

Yes, it makes me sick .. I'd rather do something about it then pick apart anyone who is against this hideous practice - but for some it's just the intellectual sport of defending our "freedoms', even if it means a whole community is bound up in ancient and out of place religious laws.

but, hey, feel free to continue to defend the rights of those who impose these things pericles, after all .. you have your freedom.

So this is intelligent debate is it, that we get people who want to defend freedoms, even if it means defending the people who impose their will to make other people less free.

Fine by me, good luck with the debate, though it seems anyone who does not like the "intellectual" POV is attacked, nothing new there - this country becomes more like America every day.