A quick question before this thread starts going on for 20 pages with no new development, why do both sides keep talking about "all Muslim women" in regards to the Burqa when the majority of Muslim women in this country wear no such thing (nor often even a scarf), and consider the full implications of this?

I mean, people outline extensively how most Muslim women are moderate and secular (this I too believe) and only a minority aren't and wear the Burqa- but never connect the dots that if this right were affected, only that minority of non-moderate,non-secular women not mentioned would actually be affected?

So long as the far right don't start some crazy stance about "Islam" in general, if this goes through, and is done so on a secularist/feminist reasoning, I seriously doubt those majority women who don't wear one would care (considering a good number of Muslim-majority countries enforce something similar regarding restricting Burqas).

Oh and can we please stop pretending this is a "protecting the oppressed women" issue- ALL of us?
It's not healthy- gives you wrinkles.

King Hazza

"why do both sides keep talking about "all Muslim women" in regards to the Burqa when the majority of Muslim women in this country wear no such thing"

For the same reason people like to 'outrage' over the tiny minority of asylum seekers who actually arrive by boat. Think of it as a smokescreen over the herd of elephants in room. It has always been easier to abuse a minority.

Yeah, I know I used 'outrage' as a verb - so shoot me.

Isn't it a really good thing, MAREELORRAINE, that you are able to exercise the freedom to express your own, personal opinion..

>>I believe wearing the full burqa is an abomination on all women who wear it.<<

Fair enough, if that's the way you see it.

But qualifying it with speculation doesn't make it any more, or less, than your own, personal, opinion.

>>Why would any human being want to be covered from head to toe...<<

Surely, whether you understand their decision is neither here nor there.

I can see why you might say "I wouldn't want to be covered from head to toe". But you aren't them, are you?

Personally, I often wonder "Why would any human being want to wear a bow tie". But they do.

A mystery.

>>It must be unhealthy to always be covered up<<

There may or may not be statistics on this. But that's really irrelevant, because what you really mean is "I'd find it really icky to be covered up like that"

For my part, I often wonder "Why would any human being want to wear a polyester shirt". But some people choose to do so.

Icky.

>>What power a man must feel, to control a woman this way<<

Is that a cause, or an effect, that you are describing there? Does the burqa cause a man to feel power over the wearer, or does the power he exerts cause the burqa to be worn?

And isn't your statement null and void anyway, if the woman freely chooses to wear the burqa?

>>You only have to watch burqa clad females in the shops to know how they really feel when their men are not around<<

I've never had inclination - and very rarely the opportunity - to do this. So perhaps you can explain i) how they feel and ii) how you know that they feel that way?

Should be interesting.

pericles you are the master of political correctness.

we know that it is a unique extreme muslim thing by some adherents to insist their women cover up like this, that their menfolk insist their religion demands it - or they would be dishonored should their woman be seen by any other man than her husband or relatives.

the women involved know the repercussions of these things, death, stoning, both, or maybe 100 lashes for not covering her face correctly - Iran, today in the news.

your defense is so typical of our PC world, where anyone who challenges it, becomes the bad guy and has to justify why they question it. so you tolerate intolerance but not anyone who questions the intolerance.

you don't need to feel or explain how you know they feel that way, that's just a rhetorical trick to enforce your pc view.

we should not tolerate this behavior in our society and we "feel" sickened knowing this is what's going on - I know I feel sickened by it because I "feel" sickened by it.

your logic is that this intolerant religion can impose whatever it likes because we should be tolerant to all aspects of other peoples lives

I disagree, why should we tolerate this hideous practice by a few of the extreme intolerant of this world? Because it offends your precious sensitivity and world view? What about the victims who cannot even have a hope of complaining .. the ones in these outfits?

Your attempt to reduce this debate to appear trivial just underlines that you seem not to understand deliberately so as to exercise frivolous and patronizing word play.

That's kind of like putting your head in the sand and refusing to see what you are defending.

the author makes a similar point, by her definition, you are unintelligent if you do not agree with her, more patronizing and the lack of respect is to the victims, not to people raising it as an issue

Pericles, Yes it is my personal opinion, personal opinions are how the world revolves around different ideas. If there were no personal opnions there would be no need for on-line opinion.
I ask you - is there a male alive who would go through life covered from head to toe because their partner does not want their face to be seen?
I would never use the word "icky", how old are you.
Of course a man would feel power over a woman when she wears the full burqa. It is questionable if any woman would ever freely choose to be covered up in such a way she is unrecognisable, or that she would truthfully disclose exactly whose choice it is for her to be covered up.
I don't know whether you are female or male but any female can tell when another woman is happy shopping for colourful clothes for herself or her children.
And yes my opinion is the wearing of the full burqa is an abomination on the women who wear it.

While wearing the burqa may or may not be a paternalistic imposition, making it illegal to wear the burqa certainly is.

How many of us engaged in this argument actually know a woman who wears a burqa? How many of us have asked her why she wears it?

I know for sure that were I to travel in some Islamic countries I would most certainly don a burqa and be very glad I had it.

There's nothing simple about burqa wearing. There's nothing simple about the Islamic culture.

If it's womens' rights everyone's worried about well there's still a great deal of work to be done in the West on that issue before we start reconstructing Islam.