Thankyou Horus and Colinsett…and raspberries to the rest of the crew on this thread !

At least a couple of people can see the enormously important point that I was making in my last post.

It begs the question; how on earth can anyone who is remotely interested in climate change and the potential effect on our society and societies around the world not see the potentially bigger effect of the closely related issue of peak oil / rising fuel prices / shortages of supply? And see that THIS is indeed MUCH more urgent!

It is also glaringly obvious that if we addressed the peak oil issue in western societies with the urgency that it needs, we’d be doing more towards addressing AGW than we could ever hope to do otherwise. And for those who don’t think AGW is real or significant, it doesn’t matter!

Everyone – AGW advocates, skeptics and denialists – should all be united when it comes to LIQUID FUEL SECURITY, as Forrest Gumpp so eloquently put it: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3836#94228

Talk about elephants in the living room…. and people who can walk straight into the room, bump into said elephant repeatedly, and still not see it! ( :>|

I can sort of understand why denialists don’t want to acknowledge this. But it is just weird that sceptics and advocates also seem really reluctant!

Most people just don’t want to know, so it seems. As Jeff says in the Wiggles youtube; ‘Can you keep that noise down, I’m trying to sleep’

ludwig, sorry, I didn't realise it was all about you .."raspberries to the rest of the crew on this thread !

At least a couple of people can see the enormously important point that I was making in my last post."

the article is by geoff, being hysterical yet again and berating skeptics (and denialists I guess) with a personally rewarding rant, yet again.

If you want peak oil addressed, write your own article and stop trying to hijack every other thread on climate change

yes, peak oil is an issue, no, AGW believers are not overly interested since there is no way to finger wag and tax the bejesus out of those they believe are overconsuming, and thus redirect THEIR wealth where they think it should go - so there's no point in the AGW believers getting on your bandwagon, especially since there are no peak oil clubs and there are soooo many AGW clubs. It's a community, it's a sense of belonging in AGW, that is not there in peak oil.

I'm vaguely interested in peak oil, but don't see it as an issue since there are so many other sources of fuel, when the need and price makes sense. You don't think agro sources of fuel can cope? Why not?

we don't need yet more hysterics .. do we?

LUDWIG says:

//This is one of the most important and urgent issues of our time – the critical need to get the bujeezus off our oil addiction!

Shouldn’t climate change advocates, skeptics and denialists all be united on this?//

and..being one who has a strong financial interest in electric cars :) I agree.

Ok..just kidding..kinda... But I'd agree even without the slightest self interest other than I hate being reliant on anything or anyone who can, at any time, pull that plug from under my feet..and "oil" seems to be one of those things.

Dear oh dear Amicus.

The all-important point that I’m making is entirely pertinent to this thread and in no way a hijacking of it.

Apparently there is nothing in between being ignored and being hysterical! I mention it once and get ignored by all but a couple of posters. I mention it again and I’m being hysterical! Pffff ( :~/

And please rethink your vague interest in peak oil and liquid fuel security.

<< You don't think agro sources of fuel can cope? Why not? >>

They can’t replace oil without a very different economic regime ensuing. It is not just about the potential quantities of biofuels that we could produce, it has everything to do with the price and economics.

A large part of the picture would be the enormous conversion of food-producing land into fuel-producing land, and the huge effect that this could have on both domestic food supplies and export income.

As so it goes. Enormous disruptions WILL occur if we continue to piffle around the edges of the issue and shirk our responsibilities to properly plan for our future in the face of obvious and ominous threats…..and continue to get sidetracked by the AGW debate!!

Ludwig:

There, there. Some facts would be handy and appreciated.

Malcolm

:)

ludwig - so sensitive, I said "we don't need yet more hysterics .. do we?" You are not the only one who occasionally gets anxious about peak oil, can I remind of of EclipseNow's tirades?

It's as relevant as any other aspect of environmentalism, and of course you can draw links to anything if you try hard enough, even statistics.

Agro fuel, grassoline, might mean devoting lots of surface area to crops for oil, we have huge country just aching to be used for such a purpose .. this might justify the greening of Australia. Talk about being in the best seat to take advantage of this "renewable". Mind you I don't hear any of our resident eco activists insisting on this as a renewable, they are all focused on electricity, rightly so too is they won't let us burn a natural source like coal, or use nuclear power. They bloody better come up with something if they want us to change! Not to worry, it will never happen.

That's a less expensive and much more rewarding future for Australia than p*ssing money in all directions trying to change the climate - at least with this, we'll know when we're done. There is a definite goal and reward, whereas stopping the climate is so abstract, it's a nice chant, catch cry, protest slogan - but the science is not there to support changing the climate.