"I can never understand why Churches do not pay tax, after all they are money making businesses, just like the local pizza shop."

Paul1405, NO! Churches do not primarily exist with a profit making intention. They primarily exist for (what they perceive as) the benefit of their members and society at large. They have primarily social goals, not financial ones.

This is why they should be kept in the same boat as other organisations who also exist for the community rather than profit. It would be a fundamental category mistake to levy income tax on the churches.

The fact that the Greens want to tax churches is an indication of an anti-religious bias in their ranks. Bill Muehlenberg and his ilk may frequently make outlandish statements and focus on the wrong issues, but they are correct when they point out that the "ideological ancestors" of the Greens are the communists. The Greens fundamentally stand against religion and freedom of religious expression, and this should be a concern for all Christians and worthy of some considerable thought, regardless of your positive views on their humanitarian policies.

Trav; your view of communism is probably that it is indisputedly - and only - what came to be known as Stalinism.

But early church leaders adovacated a form of communal church organisation what was really very close to the communist spirit. Some people have even talked of 'Christian communism'.

Even the argument that the communism of Marx was essentially about a centralised state owning everything and doing away with our liberties - doesn't hold water if you go back to the original sources. In fact Marx wanted to do away with the state - which is why - ironically - that aspect of his vision was itself Utopian.

But 'Christian communism' is a different creature from Marxism - it is a 'communism of the Christian community'.

I really urge readers to do some research, starting by checking out the URL below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism

sincerely,

Tristan

Hmmm, want to justify some of that with links to Federal policies on these matters? The CDP attack add against the Greens blended in all sorts of State issues which are not relevant at this FEDERAL election.

"Communist" is a tired old accusation. It just makes me yawn. Are you kidding me? Can't we do some *thinking* here?

Yes there's a socialist element in the GreenLeft magazine, but not all greenies are socialists. What policy of the Greens at THIS election do you find to be 'communist'? There's ultra-hard corps laissez-faire people in the Liberal party, but I wouldn't go as far as to claim they're trying to dismantle our Welfare States!

Communist! Phew...weee! There's one in every crowd. The average American Republican voter was calling Obama a "Communist" because of what he tried to do with their health system, and it's *still* a huge broken mess no where near as functional as ours! And that's saying something!

Before you go accusing me of Communism this is my position.

"Social Liberalism: Civil rights, Social Justice and State funded welfare in a Market Economy."

To clarify myself also:

I call myself a 'liberal social democrat', 'left social democrat', 'liberal democratic socialist'. I'm also a Christian - and have been almost all my life. I am not, however, a materialist. Philosophically I tend towards Cartesian dualism - conceiving mind (but not only mind) as spirit - and I don't think this is at odds with Christianity.

But Marxist and broader Left tradition is deep and varied. There's a lot there to draw from, and many radically varied positions - ranging from extremely liberal - to extremely authoritarian.

I see myself as drawing from Left and Christian tradition.

It's interesting to note - There was also a Catholic movement in Germany in the 1950s - the 'social market' model; and the 'liberation theology' movement that was popular in Central and South America. It shows there's a social justice stream in catholicism - and the conservatives don't hold a monopoly on faith. The same goes for other denominations.

Getting justice and a fair go for workers and the poor means building alliances, and being willing to work with people of different views.

Dear Tristan Ewins,
there is indeed a rich tradition of so-called Leftist Christian thought. One of my favourites, Terry Eagleton, acolyte of Herbert McCabe, came from the Catholic tradition.
My only problems with your stance as you outline it is A, that your externalisation/objectification of God/spirit is a form of alienation (impoverishment of your own essence), as formulated by Marx, and B, that "Getting justice and a fair go for workers and the poor means building alliances, and being willing to work with people of different views" does nothing to address the overweening problem of the capitalist dispensation that impoverishes (alienates) human life, regardless of anyone's securing a "fair go" within. In any case, the fatal contradictions within the capitalist political economy make those same aspirations a nonsense. The fact that the capitalist mode of production has managed to persist with a kind of welfare tax applied in rich developed nations for a few decades doesn't mean such "compensation" is sustainable. It's not. And to the extent that leftist-faith agitates for a "compassionate capitalism", rather than an end to capitalism, it is irredeemably implicated, both spiritually and practically, in a system that is the very antithesis of Christianity, no? Of course religion has worked hand-in-glove with capitalism forever.
No doubt you are well-intentioned.

Tristan, you’ve talked a lot about your own position on the political wing but not answered my questions about Greenie Communists.

Regarding attacking religious freedoms… I assume you are referring to this attack add by the CDP on the Greens?
http://onevote.com.au/

1. When were we a "Christian country"? What part of our Constitution says that?

2. Where does the New Testament ask us to make sure our State is "Christian"? Corinthians has rules about Church discipline, but where is the book for governing the State?

3. Allegations they’re against religious freedom come from this State article: ambiguous at best. Policy?
http://au.christiantoday.com/article/acl-questions-nsw-greens-commitment-to-freedom-of-religion/8414.htm

4. Against Christian groups employing only Christians is also a State issue in Victoria, what’s the Federal policy?
http://vic.greens.org.au/news/media-releases-2010/greens-will-stand-firm-against-religious-exemptions

5. Fund counsellors not Chaplains?
http://www.theage.com.au/national/greens-push-for-counsellors-not-chaplains-20100326-r37m.html

This one IS Federal, but has me wondering about what exactly has been going on when Education is part Federal, part State. I have been a Scripture teacher for a few years now and have not met Federally funded Chaplains... but plenty of High School "Chaplains" who are funded by local church coalitions.

Think about this: The NSW Scripture legislation was passed decades ago because it is so anti-discriminatory. It guarantees the right of Christian AND Buddhist AND Muslim faiths to have some input to their children on matters of culture and faith once a week. I, as a Christian scripture teacher, would gladly go into battle for the right of Buddhist teachers to do their thing while I do mine. It's only fair.

If the Federal government is paying $48 million a year for school Chaplains, should it also pay the same amount for every other faith?

What exactly is the State's responsibility again? Try Romans 13. What is the church's duties again? Try the whole New Testament.