Ho Hum wrote: It is often said that the USA is the most religious of countries, especially in the West.

Then why is USA culture altogether so awful--barbaric even!

Dear Ho Hum,

The religion is Christianity, and Christianity to a large extents fosters barbarism. Some Christians recognise this and are trying to recognise the barbarism and cleanse Christianity of it.

http://www.johnshelbyspong.com/bishopspongon_theTerribleTexts.aspx

John Shelby Spong on the Terrible Texts of the Bible

RELIGIOUS BIGOTRY:
"No one comes to the Father but by me" (John 14:6)
This text has helped to create a world where adherents of one religion feel compelled to kill adherents of another. A veritable renaissance of religious terror now confronts us and is making against us the claims we have long made against religious traditions different from our own.

ANTI-SEMITISM:
And the people answered, 'His blood be on us and on our children'" (Matt. 27:25)
No other verse of Holy Scripture has been responsible for so much violence and so much bloodshed. People convinced that these words conferred legitimacy and even holiness on their hostility have killed millions of Jewish people over history. Far more than Christians today seem to understand, to call the Bible "Word of God" in any sense is to legitimize this hatred reflected in its pages.

SEXISM:
For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man." (1Cor. 8-9)
The message of the Christian church was once that women are evil to their core and it was built on the story of Eve. She was taken out of man and was not his equal, but his helpmeet. Evil entered human history through the weakness of the woman. She was made to bear the blame and the guilt. She was the source of death.

continued

continued

HOMOPHOBIA:

"...the men of Sodom...to the last man, surrounded the house; and they called to Lot, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.'" (Lev. 18:22)

This story that portrays all of the men of Sodom as eager to gang-rape two heavenly visitors has been used to condemn faithful and loving homosexual relationships. A story in which a father, in order to protect the Middle Eastern code of hospitality, can offer his virgin daughters to be gang-raped, and still be regarded by both God and the author of this story as righteous, has been turned by the prejudices of later interpreters into an anti-homosexual text that feeds the basest side of our humanity. How is that possible unless prejudice overwhelms rationality and moral judgment?

The church has sought to portray Jesus as sharing an anti-female bias that includes a commitment to celibacy. But there is a repressed tradition that counters this teaching, in the story of Mary, the sister of Martha, anointing Jesus' feet (John 12:1-8). The only thing that would have made such an act acceptable in that day is the knowledge she was his wife.

CORPORAL PUNISHMENT:

"Do not withhold discipline from a child....If you beat him with a rod, you will save his life from Sheol" (Prov. 23:13, 14)
It validates our own violence, since when we abuse others we are only acting after the example which God has set for us. God even required the crucifixion of the Son. The punishing God is thus replicated in the punishing parent, the punishing authority figure and the punishing nation. Violence is redemptive. War is justified. Bloodshed is the way of salvation. It all fits together so tightly, so neatly, and it justifies the most destructive and demeaning of human emotions.

continued

continued

ENVIRONMENTAL DEGRADATION:

"Be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth" (Gen. 1:28)
We human beings are not some alien visitors who happen to be on the planet earth. Our human life is part of this planet. Heaven is not our home. The earth is. Once this supposed divine command was seen as necessary to enable the human race to survive. Now it must be seen as nothing less than a prescription for human genocide. If followed literally, this "Word of God" all but guarantees our annihilation.

end of extract from Bishop Spong

The record of Christian barbarism is exemplified by the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Reformation wars of religion, the persecution of non-Christians and the Holocaust. The ground for the Holocaust was prepared by centuries of Christian hatred. Current Christian efforts to fight condom use, population planning and the teaching of evolutionary biology in the schools endure that misery and ignorance will continue their reign.

Christians of good will such as Bishop Spong are trying to bring out the goodness in Christianity by recognising the evil inherent in it and eliminating it. One problem that he and others of his ilk face is that the Bible in toto and other Christian traditions regardless how dated and unreasonable they may be are so dear to the fundamentalists that none of it may be challenged.

Squeers

The purpose of separation of church and state is not to keep politics free from religious opinion and sentiment, but to avoid a situation where religious institutions have political rights and authority (and vice versa). There’s a world of difference between having a head of state who professes Christianity and acts accordingly, and an established religion with institutional powers and privileges

Dear Rhian,
of course I realise this and I'm in favour, as I said, of a proper separation of church and state; but that doesn't alter the fact that in many Western countries the dominant church enjoys "virtual establishment" in their tax-free status and their free reign in state schools and their privileged media attention. I find it galling for instance that the media clamours around Jim Wallace and the ACL, yet the Australian Secular Lobby, its asymmetrical twin, is ignored by the media--and this in an ostensibly secular country, or at least one that professes not to show favouritism. What a joke! This kind of ingrained bias is of course driven by populism, by a population not so much infatuated with "Christianism" as jaded by it! Though this doesn't prevent many people indifferently identifying with it. Which is the reason Gillard is forced to debase the precious values she loves to spruke about--because in a popular democracy she has to cultivate the broadest appeal--which is why we end up with leaders who stand for nothing!
A true separation of church and state has to purge religious influence utterly from the ethical administration of the state. Christian churches deserve no greater government or media attention or privileged access to schools than scientology does! This would still leave us with serious flaws in our way of life that need to be addressed, but it would be a start.

I don't claim to have said mine or "the last word" on this topic, far from it; there's a great deal more that needs to be said.
Of course the pseudo-Established church is well-entrenched, even complacent, and see their most advantageous tactic as remaining divinely impassive. I think they are justified in feeling smug.
As David Fisher is arguing, foundational and learned opinion are as one in favour of ejecting Tartuffe from the administration and the economy of the state!

Squeers
Like it or not, the churches represent a significant segment of the Australian population and the media are right to report their views, in much the same way the Conservation Council is consulted on environmental issues or business groups on economic issues. This is a pluralist democracy, and representative organisations matter. They should not be reported uncritically, however.

You say that “Christian churches deserve no greater government or media attention or privileged access to schools than scientology does!” If you are arguing that they should not have tax or legal privilege different to other organisations that do similar things (charities, schools etc) I agree with you. If you’re saying that church leaders have no right to comment on public affairs, or politicians to listen to them, then I don’t