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The Forum > Article Comments > There is no god in which we all trust > Comments

There is no god in which we all trust : Comments

By David Fisher, published 11/8/2010

Belief, unbelief, disinterest and active hostility all have a place in a country's relationship to god(s)

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"Although there have been outbreaks of religious bigotry the United States has been fairly free of it."

This is not true -- and you can find plenty of evidence at

http://religiousatrocities.wordpress.com/

But what the US has largely avoided is government-supported religious bigotry, which produces the kind of paranoid, stagnant and backward-looking states which now dominate the Middle East.

Even putting human rights issues aside, it should be clear to any observer that secularism goes with economic growth; and for that reason alone it is worth supporting. Only a theist could be so unreasonable as to deny everyone else in their nation a chance at prosperity for the sake of pleasing an imaginary God.
Posted by Jon J, Wednesday, 11 August 2010 8:03:17 AM
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I'm glad you finally give a mention to the disinterested. Disinterested people are forever marginalised in this world, and I'm glad you can find it in your heart to bravely declare they have a place, even if only in this country's relationship with god.
Posted by Houellebecq, Wednesday, 11 August 2010 10:00:24 AM
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David; I found your article interesting and informative, all the more so because it was very well researched. I am a Christian myself; but also believe in separation of church and state. Without separation of church and state there's even the possibility of one ostensible Christian creed oppressing another; with religion an edifice behind which lies not faith, but ruthless pursuit of power.Thanks.
Posted by Tristan Ewins, Wednesday, 11 August 2010 11:31:01 AM
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Tristan, I'm curious as to why you felt it necessary to include this sentence: 'I am a Christian myself; but also believe in separation of church and state'. The use of 'but' suggests that support for the separation of Church and State runs counter to Christian values, which could not be further from the truth. In the Gospels of Mark and Matthew, Jesus himself advocates for the separation of Church and State.
Posted by Riz, Wednesday, 11 August 2010 12:23:10 PM
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Riz; it wasn't my intention to suggest separation of church and state is against Christian values or scripture. The Old and New covenants are law - but only for those who accept them.

Also my belief is that liberal pluralism is actually in Christianity's interests. There was a time when Christianity was hegemonic in Australia- even if all over the world it was at times dreadflly abused; 'blessing of artillery' in the First World War etc...

But liberal pluralism can actually be a defence for Christians, with the prospect of our becoming a minority where once we were a majority, and many being hostile to the Christian faith.

That said I support liberal social democracy regardless of religion - as a compromise to protect our social and liberal rights, ensure a level of social peace - preventing conflict at a variety of levels descending into a brutal and desperate struggle for power; but allowing forms of dissent and resistance without the 'authoritarian iron heel'.
Posted by Tristan Ewins, Wednesday, 11 August 2010 12:40:01 PM
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A good essay, especially as this topic is currently part of the shouting match in the USA culture wars, with right-wing religionists using arguments re the supposed Christianity of the founding fathers, in their attempts to re-"christianize" America.

It is often said that the USA is the most religious of countries, especially in the West.

Then why is USA culture altogether so awful--barbaric even!

It has one of the highest rates of imprisonment in the world--perhaps the highest. One of the highest rates of murder. Is saturated with pornography, including the pornography of violence. It is saturated with drugs--illegal, over the counter, and prescription. It still executes criminals. Is saturated with violence altogether, brought to one and all via its "entertainment" industry, and via the gun "culture" as dramatized and promoted by the NRA. It is easily the worlds largest maker, seller and user of weapons of all kinds, including WMD's.
Posted by Ho Hum, Wednesday, 11 August 2010 2:07:43 PM
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