Turnbull and Hockey are rated ahead of Abbott? Pshaw!

Most interesting and I would agree that Rudd will have to fight hard to win the next election. He has done a number of volte faces in the last six months and not getting the ETS through was a killer.

Rudd will run on economic management during the GFC. They made the right call by throwing money at it but people have short memories. It's also not something that the electorate will construct as a 'positive'. It was a major negative averted.

Go back to Rudd's election night speech. It was the most boring in 50 years. One might think that he's be safe being boring and conservative but as we draw close to one full term of ALP government, the spin doctors and machine men know he hasn't done nearly enough.

There is on doubt that there has been some disquiet of late. However, the comment regarding elections not being based on budgets is interesting because the great majority think that the budget has merit, as it actually does have value for the average taxpayer.
Rudd's greatest problem has been Rudd. His inability to be clear on policies and objectives. As such, he appears to be starting many projects but finishing few. Not controlling the Senate also is a sad inheritance and has ruined the government's legislative plans.
He should be judged well in the effort given to shielding the country from the financial worries in which Australia was the envy of the world. Don't dismiss that too lightly. However, this has put him a poor light as other priorities has to be voted down to concentrate on those things that buffered us from economic collapse.
So he was between a rock and a hard place. Damned if he did save us and damned if he had done nothing, the opposition's suggestion.
Interesting how a Fairfax associated organisation can not see the merits of what has been done. It is common knowledge that Murdoch and his cabal of Zionist writers and supporters have Labor squarely in their sights as they did with Labor in the UK. It suits their long term World Order and their local effort will warm up soon and leave no one in any doubt as to their intentions. Sheridan from The Australian is probably already honing up his re-write skills to handle Murdoch's own writings on the subject.
But even Murdoch with his jaundiced influence cannot make a silk purse out of a sour's ear; can't make a credible PM out of Abbott. Can't be done I'mm afraid unless we plan to be the laughing stock of the world. No less likely a person exists for that role. Ambassador to Rome, yes. PM, hardly. Let's see them waste their efforts on making Abbott credible. Not even the tooth fairy could do that.

What the KRuddster has going for him is the simple fact that Australians rarely kick out a first term PM. The last time it happened was in the early 1930s and then it took the Great Depression.

So my money is still on the KRuddster to win at least one more time.

Of course what he really has his eyes on is a high-ranking UN job. Maybe even Secretary-General. But I doubt he'll get it.

*He should be judged well in the effort given to shielding the country from the financial worries in which Australia was the envy of the world. Don't dismiss that too lightly.*

Hang on, that credit goes to Costello, for setting it all up.
They had to do nothing, just go with what was there on a plate.

If anyone has made Australia a laughing stock, its Rudd/Swan
with their new mining super tax. Its smacks of third world/banana
republic politics, not first world politics.

"Of course what he really has his eyes on is a high-ranking UN job. Maybe even Secretary-General. But I doubt he'll get it."

I reckon you might be wrong there steven. Rudd has already created a path towards a high ranking job by handing out jobs to Peter Costello, Tim Fischer, Kim Beazley and Brendan Nelson.

Even if the Opposition wins and he is ousted (highly unlikely) I reckon there will be a job in the wings.

You can hear the rhetoric now, "umm..aaarr.. well you know these positions are based on merit and Mr Rudd has contributed much to Australia and ..." blah blah.

You would have to say that the next election is wide open. The government made the right moves over the GFC but then failed to execute the plan effectively, well disaster really. The PM has completely failed to shine as a leader and comes across as the seasoned bureaucrat that he is, Boring and unclear.
On the other hand the opposition are still trying to convince us that they can yell and object their way into government without policy. A brash narcissist is hardly the best alternative leader for the country.
The economy will matter at the election as it always does, but we seem to forget that this country is in the strong position it is due to the good economic decisions of successive governments stretching way back. This government has done no wrong in this area and is leading in the tough move to the super tax.(the mining industry suggested in a submission to the henry review a reform of royalties, not what they meant?)
In the end we normally give a government two terms to get it together, one of the advantages of three year terms, so i imagine Rudd will get one more chance. If he doesn't start performing don't expect him to be there long though as Julia will be itching to be our first Female PM.

Sigh- it's sad watching Australians agonizing SO much over two lousy candidates, when they could have been spending the time looking for someone ELSE.

I think there's a problem with Australia that goes WAY beyond Rudd or Abbot (although there is no question that these two are direct results of this problem.

Short answer, if YOU don't like the "two" choices- try looking at your local independents and minors- they HAVE websites- with policies, and you'll only have to read them once- or, at very most, once every three YEARS.

Seriously, how much WORSE is the alternative of the two compared to each other? No really, give me some examples!

I wonder if Julia very surrepticiously set Kev up for his big fall. It would not be hard to do,since Kev the narcissist would believe anything that pandered to his ego.Perhaps that smirk on Julia's face hides a lot more mongrel and ambition than Kev could muster in a life time of mirror gazing.

So what's the plan? If Julia puts Kev out of our misery early,will this strengthen Labor's chances? I don't think that Labor can afford to go to the polls with a lame duck PM.Abbott does have weaknesses particularily on the economic front.He seems flaky and unsure.With Cassius Turnbull on the prowl again and things are looking interesting.Is it a lean and hungry look Graham?

What's the bet Graham? I think Labor are done unless Julia can portray an Abbott as a mad monk.

I just can’t pick this one Graham; one of my main concerns is the apparent thrashing between one policy and the next. I also get very concerned when the government starts yanking the fiscal levers rather than tweaking them. Everything smacks of knee jerk with little explanation offered to the electorate.

It often seems that the PM makes one of his policy announcements and then leaves Swan, Tanner, Gillard et al to explain them.

If as your polling suggests, the opposition has three contenders with Hockey, and Turnbull ahead of Abbott as preferred leader, then perhaps the electorate does see some depth and experience in the opposition.

If the Liberals can effectively explain their “budget in reply” position and support that with hard numbers, it may be possible to consolidate or even improve on current polling.

That will leave the PM with having to find the proverbial “rabbit” to pull out of the hat. It could come in the form of a double dip GFC during the run up to the election? It could come from a major international CPRS initiative which would provide the opportunity for reintroducing our ETS to the election manifesto? It could also come from a “resolution” to the mining tax conflict, especially if it looks like a win / win.

I’m not sure at this stage if Abbott needs a rabbit, but I think Rudd does.

I think it is labor voters who want to see Turnbull as liberal leader.

He is so like Rudd that those labor lot that are silly enough to still like Rudd, also like Turnbull.

The other, smarter labor lot realise he is as hopeless as Rudd, & would love to see him back leading the opposition. They know he'd knock 15% to 20% off the liberal vote.

I don't see much to like about the leadership of either labor, or liberal, but I'm damn sure that the only one of them who could be worse than Rudd, is Turnbull. Throw greenie Brown in there, & you have a fairy tale. You know the one, it's about the Three Blind Mice. Even the tea lady would be a considerable improvement on that bunch.

Half a mo, what was the name of that school tuckshop manager? Is she available?

Rudd has always had his interests in front of the party's. He has always put his face at the head of any new initiative, and has gone for these "revolutionary" changes.

Good government mostly means doing the same things but more efficiently and better. These grandiose gestures mean big change which nearly everyone resists, so when they are compromised beyond recognition, as they were doomed to do so, then one is left with a mess and an image of gross incompetence.

As the face of labor, Rudd is also their Achilles heel, by working on his personality the coalition can not only bring him down, but labor too. Gillard is not a viable option so close to the election.

As the bad news from the insulation / school buildings / immigration crises continue to grind out, the news is only going to get worse. Abbott with a new war chest from the mining houses is not about to let this escape the public's attention either.

Dear Mr Rudd

I know you are not reading this but I will pretend you are. Its not only that people have stopped listening to you, but that you need to start listening to people with good practical advice, not those advisors around you who live in a virtual world with no moral compass.

Many people voted for you because they thought you had moral fortitude, that you were honest and had conviction, and possibly even a vision for a better and fairer Australia. God forbid after Howard we would have voted for a cockroach. Now you have shown you are just another expedient politician who doesn't really have the courage of your convictions, in fact you don't seem to have any convictions. You are letting people down now because you engendered hope, and we expected more. How many times do you have to read what is the narrative here? What is the big picture? Where are we going? The question is asked of you every week.

As a former bureaucrat you must recognise that everything the Government has attempted (to change or improve) has been thwarted by the gross incompetence of the public sector in health, defence, education, the environment and indigenous affairs. If you are unwilling to grasp the nettle and make the hard decisions (take the risks) to fix these things then you should move on and let someone with the vision and the courage do so. Why did you want the job if you weren't going to give it a "red hot go?". You should be relieved your current political opponent is an idiot, and the fact he is able to seriously challenge you says so much.

50 50 with 3 months to go
not long to go now for workplace contracts to be back
and unfair dismisal laws to be scrapped
go abbott go

When Howard was at the same point during his first term, people were also predicting his downfall.

He'd lost a number of Ministers who had to resign due to impropriety, he'd alienated gun owners and increased the Medicare levy to fund his buy-back scheme and the memories of dogs and balaclavas in the workplace were still fresh. Commentators were saying he had no sense of direction for the country and the huge Government service cutbacks had hurt a lot of people.

Labor won more votes as I recall but not in the seats that mattered.

Despite the media frenzy it's still too early to write Rudd off. A change back to the Libs after one term, considering the successful GFC outcome would be extremely reactionary.

To vote for an obstructive Opposition that claims it has suddenly "learned from it's mistakes and reinvented itself" after only a few months under Abbott would be a bit of a worry for future stability.

Australians are notoriously ungrateful, for things they think they are entitled to. The big cash throwaways, when Rudd was the latest billionaire, are soon forgotten, and the future lack of bread in the larder worries people. Even the pensioners getting a better fair go, under Rudd, are balanced by the self funded retirees, whose super is taking a bit of a pounding.

Rudd’s greatest failure is to have forgotten who put him there. My fan club on OLO screams blue murder when I remind them that 65% of Australians are Christian. Many do not go to church every Sunday, but the moral values of Christianity run deep, and so do the suspicions about other faiths, and even about fellow believers.

If Abbott was an Anglican he would be much more popular, as the Catholic Church is taking a caning. However his moral values with a wife and three daughters, in a stable marriage, are beyond question. There are an enormous number of very good people in the Roman Catholic Church. It lost England to the scholarship of its own people in the United Kingdom. In England the former England went nearly universally for the Conservatives, while Wales with a significant Roman Catholic element and Scotland, went heavily Labor. Only one seat in Scotland is held by the Conservatives.

Without the cooperation of Christian Australians the country could not be governed. The Church is divided, and once the rebellion against the English promoted by Irish Roman Catholics was ended in 1922, by home rule, attendance at Catholic Churches declined. However they remain Christians. Latham lost because he behaved and admitted he was an atheist. Kim Christian Beasley, was shy about his middle name, and there was nothing Christian about workchoices. Rudd could have called an election on Climate Change, while he had Turnbull on side, and won, so he is really into his second semester, and just may fail in his third.

He could change but it seems unlikely

Peter
While you make some valid points about the relevance of our Judeo-Christian heritage, I don't think Latham's demise had anything at all to do with atheism. Even the Christian politicians among us claim to be, for the most part, secular humanists.

Someone asked me for my view of the next election. If I had to put money on it I would back Labor to win. But I wouldn't want to put any money on it at the moment. It will probably be won in the marginals, and Labor has given some of those away with its opportunistic tax on mining companies. So it has given away a couple of goals for nothing.

Labor supporters are strongly behind Rudd, so I don't think Gillard is an option, even if it was the smart thing to do to replace Rudd with Gillard, which it probably isn't at this stage of the cycle. And in some ways they could get two for the price of one. If there was an expectation that Rudd would fall over the line and then move on leaving Julia in charge, then they might claw some support back.

I was listening to commercial radio last night - force-fed through the speakers in the gym. They had a skit where someone called Kevin Rudd did a stand-up comedy act, and each time he promised something the crowd laughed. But the largest laugh was for the straight "man", someone called Jessica Watson, who delivered the killer line "I disagree with the PM". When you're being twitted on commercial radio by a 16 year old and the crowd is loving it, you're in very deep water without a life raft..

I am starting to develop a liking for Abbott.

It is all the things he is being attacked for that is making him more attractive.

His lack of polish, & the fact that he is less articulate is very much a part of it. I get the impression he is think about what he is going to say. How quaint some might say, but after listening to Rudd squirting out carefully written, & obviously rehearsed answers to everything, even if not relevant to the subject, it is a most welcome change.

It will be an interesting time.

A politician admitting he sometimes tells porkies.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/18/2902394.htm

That rather endears Abbott to me.

Wayne Swann is quoted as saying:

"I ... certainly I don't think anyone in public life intentionally tells the untruth."

Need I spell out the irony of that statement? Especially coming from a minister in the KRuddster's administration.

I'd like fellow cyclist Abbott to win but my guess is the KRuddster will still be PM after the election.

Graham, I fear you are indulging in a bit of wishful thinking.

Ladies & Gentlemen, get out in the street and talk to real people, as i do. Forget about polls, focus groups & the halls of academia.

A great article Graham & your later comment as well.

I blog on OLO because it is one of the 2 most influential forums in the Australian Market. The other one is "The Punch". Run by News ltd & is advertised in their newspapers daily. In fact i first discovered OLO because "The Punch" has a list of related "sites they like" including OLO & i tried them all.

Try "The Punch" as well as continuing on OLO & you will see more "ordinary" Aussies on their site blogging. Obviously there are plenty of left, right, out stooges on both sides of the debate, on both sites, blindly barracking for their team.

But i am seeing more middle of the road, swinging voters every day expressing disgust for both of the Major Mistakes. You should start to see some of them arriving here as i also promote OLO on "The Punch".

The Liberal/National coalition will IMHO win this upcoming election by a landslide, but based on the people i meet & blog with daily, it will be off the back of preferences from real minor parties & independents.

http://www.democrats.org.au/

http://ausfirst.alphalink.com.au/

http://www.ldp.org.au/

http://australianpolitics.com/parties/list.shtml

The word is out about the red/greens being communists, they are just as dead in the water as the getup/labour coalition.

I don't often agree with spindoc, but think that he is spot on here. There is anger at the Rudd government among many of us, not only for breaking election promises, but also for introducing major policy changes, while concealing their intent to do so until after the election. Examples include allowing non-resident foreigners to buy existing houses, greatly increased immigration, and compulsory internet filtering (i.e. censorship), with lists of banned sites to be kept secret and no real restrictions on what can be banned. John Howard rightly attracted anger and ridicule for his "non-core" promises, but at least he had the courage to take the GST to an election.

I think Rudd's biggest failing is his lack of self-promotional skills.

It's what helped the Labor Party stay in Opposition so long.

He should have been plundering the public purse to send out vast amounts of media propaganda to advertise his governments achievements - not to mention a fridge magnet or two - plus some better photo opportunities.

Arguing against one party doesn't automatically give credit to another party.
Look at the NSW State government. Plenty of reasons not to vote for them but no reason at all to vote for the Liberals.

That's why Abbott isn't picking up all the anti-Rudd swing.

Why do you think Turnbull cancelled his resignation?. He wants Abbotts job back when Abbott fails at the next election and he only needs to get 2 votes to reverse the last spill.Turnbull isn't hanging around for some lousy job on the back bench.

I think some of these posters should take a cold shower and settle down a bit. Early days yet.

The cult of personality may not last until election day.

Just a quick question, does anyone actually care which of the two candidates get in?
And if so, why?

I mean really, there's so little difference between them there is only one thing that comes to mind;
Labor- spend money on trivial and cosmetic programs to pretend they're "doing something"
Liberal- sit on the money and do nothing to pretend they're "being responsible".

It's sad- this is probably the year in which the two-party-preferred stakes couldn't possibly get ANY lower, and so many are still stumbling over themselves to weigh them both up!

It shows we have a LONG way to go before we evolve as a nation.

Let us not forget that many people voted Labor because they could not stand the sight nor sound of John Howard and were sick and tired of his sidekicks Costello,Abbott,Downer,Andrews,Ruddock etc.
Just look at the coalition front bench now -The Jesuit cabal of Abbott,Hockey,Joyce,Andrews and Pyne. Throw in Ruddock,Bronwyn Bishop and the other aged personnel and you have a very good reason to invoke the Howard principle and keep them out.
Incidentally the pot left by the Howard mob was thanks to China and a failure by the coalition in government to do anything but give the taxes back to the needless and bank what was left. Dont give me too much of Rudd's debacles in infrastructure. At least he tried to do something for the infrastructure.

Tony Abbott is my local member.He is far more confident and articulate in a live audience situation than on the media.When on the media,he seems to choose his words too carefully.

Abbott does not pretend to know all the answers and in way that is refreshing,since all the so called experts not only could not see the GFC coming but prescribed the wrong medicine and now we find ourselves in deeper debt and more inflation.

The Liberals will balance the budget eventually but like Labor are are wedded to a socialised tax sytem that churns money for them to buy votes.

We have to drastically reduce not only the size of Govt but make it really accountable in terms of spending.How can a school canteen cost $25,000 per sq m,when they can build a fully fitted out high rise for $1500 per sq m? A school portable costs $100,000 to build yet an additional $400,000 is needed to transport and assemble it on a few brick piers.

Something really stinks about this whole stimulus package.
We the tax payer are left with the debt while the big end of town profits.Will the Liberal Party address this waste and corruption or just play the game and become a part of it?

I expect that there may be some more action on the stimulus front before the next election - specifically identifying, investigating and possibly laying charges against those shonky small business owners who rorted the system.

Lying is an interesting aspect of this debate. Our expectations are now so low and we are now so immune and brain-numbed to lying that we think it is okay as long as the pollies admit they do it.

One thing I will give Pauline Hanson, at least she spoke the truth as she saw it even at the risk of censure, mockery and ridicule. And in among the mess she created for herself, there were a few good policies particularly her defence of Australian pig farmers and the like.

Much rather a pollie say this is what I will do: A, B, C and D and this is how I would do it. Vote for me or not.

How can a democracy be truly representative of the people, if you don't know what it is you are voting for either from an ideologically or policy platform POV.

Agree Pelican- although I must further add that there are so many ways Australian democracy falls short of representing the Australian people I'd have to make a list- the first being the whole reason this debate is even happening- the fact that our system doesn't even require a government with a majority, just more voters than any single other party.
So all in all, we are always governed by a minority government that 60% or more of the population didn't vote for (and that in itself is a rather contentious issue, thanks to various levels of preferencing (including being FORCED to give them a vote in some way if it is to be counted).

*Lying is an interesting aspect of this debate.*

I heard an interesting quote recently, which went along the lines
that "Its been confirmed through the world's ballot boxes, that
politics is the noble art of deception".

Very true.

In a representative democracy we don't vote for our local member per se - we vote for a Political Party.

Even then, we don't vote for a Party as much as we vote for a leader.

How then is a local member able to act in the interests of his/her electorate when they must first obey the rules of their Party?

Our system is simply one in which one of two groups of politicians, each acting in the interests of various lobby groups - take turns in running the country.

Every thousand days or so, we get a choice between two leaders - and that's all the democracy we have.

When the wishbone replaces the backbone, the country is in trouble. I was in country Victoria last weekend, in a little clone of Hillsong Church, with a dedicated female Pastor, sticking as Hillsong does, to the word of the Lord. I missed the program on Hillsong on TV, but one thing has emerged. The Anglican Church, Rudd’s Church, in the four million people environent in Melbourne, attracts 25,000 worshippers every weekend. It has many great leaders in it, but for really Passionate teaching and inspiring Pastors, the Hillsong brand has to be considered successful worldwide.

My work over the last six years has been to investigate the origins and roots of the Australian Constitution. In it the Queen or Her Majesty appears forty times, and because She is the head of the Church, Army, The legal system, and the Government Her Coronation Oath 1688 ( Imp) is an important part of the Australian Constitution, and makes us a Christian country. In 1901, when the Constitution became law, the Irish still did not have Home Rule, and the resentments against England carried through to Australia. When Major General Jim Molan, joined the Army as a teenager, about 1965 his father warned him that as a Roman Catholic, he would be discriminated against. Australia had, by then grown used to the Roman Catholics becoming Aussies, and he claims he never had a single problem with religious discrimination.

The confidence trick pulled upon the Australian people, by its government over 109 years, has been based on the atheist belief, that Almighty God does not matter, and the stacking of the Legal Profession, by atheists. S 126 of the Australian Constitution casts a duty on Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second to appoint deputies, in every community throughout Australia, not just in Canberra. It says: The Queen may authorize the Governor General, and the use of the word may, supposedly implies a discretion. However, may becomes must, when private rights are in issue, and the essential humanity, and guarantee of democracy, contained in the teachings of Jesus Christ, must have a local outlet. Continued

Pigeons have a habit of coming home to roost. Rudd came to power after making a full on pitch for the Christian vote. He has thirty lawyers in his team in the lower house, and Penny Wong is a lawyer. I do not know for sure but I think M/s Wong, is an atheist. A person who does not believe in God’s wisdom has had to adopt a substitute, and it is the Green Religion, that motivates her life.

The Christian roots of democracy, are so frightening to despots, that over sixty million Christians were murdered in seventy years, in Russia. That is three times the current population of Australia. They still could not make it die. The Christian roots of Australian democracy, are contained in S 126 Constitution, and the whole object of the Australian Constitution has been frustrated, because the Government has not advised the Queen, to appoint every local Magistrate as a local delegate of Her Majesty. Her Majesty comes not from her person, but from Her dedication, by Oath, to the service of Her people by the Coronation Oath 1688 ( Imp).

Nature abhors a vacuum. The vacuum left by the failure of government, to appoint local representatives of the Commonwealth, has been filled by the States. I mentioned Jim Molan earlier. He was and remains infantry. Infantry is the edge of the power sword. The edge of the power sword is blunted, by the failure of the federal government to appoint local Magistrates as delegates of Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, and pay them accordingly.

I am firmly of the belief that whoever promises to implement the Australian Constitution, and blunt the power of the Canberra bureaucrats, by appointing local representatives of the Commonwealth, in every community, to make the Constitution work as planned, will win.

Australia has over 60% of its population, nominally Christian. Almighty God is a patient and loving God, and He has been waiting, for all Christians to unite, and discover that we have more in common, than divisions among us. If Abbott can work to unite, he will succeed

That's a very good theory Peter minus the fact that Democracy was invented by the Greeks roughly half a millennium BEFORE Christianity even existed, and much of the inspiration for democratic systems actually came from both them and the Romans- BOTH non-Christian pagans.

REXW, putting unsure Rudd aside for the moment, your reference about Zionists influencing the Murdoch media is what has many middle road academics worried.

Certainly us older ones felt hatred for the way Nazi Germany treated the Jews, but it seems that once they get the chance they will still align with big Biz, as the early Jews sought help from the Romans to get rid of the young Jesus.

Returning to Rudd, it could be said that he too has become unsure of himself through right-wing propaganda, much helped by Rudd himself being too loose with Costello/Howard acquired capital.

Which again worries middle roaders as our public has been made to forget how John Howard so resolutely joined Tony Blair to back George W Bush in his attack on Iraq.

One wonders if all the above mess can be made secure just by letting little Israel begin its long awaited attack, setting the rest of the world on Iran?

Maybe it has reached the stage that Murdoch with his Zionist offsiders can easily push littlies like Rudd aside steering the world whichever way he wants.

When King Hazza has a go at me about democracy, I know at least one reader has read what I posted so we have a conversation going. Jesus Christ invented representative democracy. All others are simply poor copies, and he patented the idea, in the Holy Bible.

His promise to be with us always, in the Holy Spirit, and the machinery, he as a genuine social engineer put in place, by giving verbal instructions, later written down, examined by scholars, and adopted as the English Constitution by the English, and exported to the United States, which then became a Republic has been the basis of the enormous prosperity of the Anglo Celtic world, and the failure of so many to accept it, has led to enormous suffering and poverty.

It works like this. On top of the pile is a King. Jesus was called upon to use his supernatural powers, to make himself King, and to this day, the remaining Jews have not forgiven Him. Instead, he made the King bow to Almighty God, and so did the English. The Pope is NOT Almighty God. Protestants believe that every individual, has a personal relationship with Almighty God, and by prayer, can have a conversation with Him. No middlemen are required.

The representative democracy created by Jesus Christ was established after the Magna Carta became the cornerstone of the laws of England. No one except the Holy Spirit is infallible, and even Almighty God Himself, in John 5 Verses 22 and 23, deferred to the Authority of Jesus, but Jesus then deferred to the Holy Spirit, in Luke 12 Verses 10-12. These references are all to the Authorised King James Version.

If one word describes the advent of Christianity, it is the word arbitrary. Arbitrary judgments are the highest form of blasphemy: The only unforgivable sin in the New Testament. Even Parliament must refrain from arbitrary judgments, and in English law, submit its deliberations to the ultimate test. The test of whether Almighty God will allow a jury to enforce the law, is the ultimate in representative democracy, and our heritage.

Petrol prices maybe the decider. The mine tax will hit the economy before it is implemented unless significant changes are announced. Rudd had said Indian students were hurt by the strong dollar and that the new tax would reduce the value of the AUD. Well this is already happening and will increase bowser prices. Reserve bank is now using intervention to increase the exchange rate so a war between Rudd and Reserve Bank is on. Who will win? Higher fuel prices, higher interest rates and higher cigarette prices is a lot of money out of the economy and may cause unemployment. then defaults starts, blah, blah. Ok to spend like a madman but collection day has arrived.

Except, Peter, that it's impossible to make a 'poor copy' of a system BEFORE the person who allegedly invented the system was even born- which goes for both Athenian and Roman democrats.