Trav,

Millions of people are known to have believed in Apollo and Zeus. Below are some creation myths. No more fantastic the OT. As you may know, the Titans were thrown the Olympians. There is no direct comparison in the OT, however, Jehovah (Elohim?), does overthrow other gods in the OT.

http://zeus.heavengames.com/misc/myth/myth2.shtml

http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/Apollo.html

On what basis can the OT claim that its creation myths superior to those of the Greeks or Romans?

Popper was in an argument with Jung and noted the latter was claiming validity based on his thousandfold experience of (shaky) premise. Popper, replied, would to the effect, “with this discourse we have one thousandfold, plus one”. My point is that if you, the author and one thousandfold others, make the same error, it does correct it.

Why should we believe that Genesis before other myths?

To the contrary, it all shows from before the Axial Age to the “Alexandrian God Factories” (Wells) and into the Current Era, too many people create myths.

Vanna,

I don’t recall Davidf ever claiming there is no such thing as a biological catalyst.

Vanna will you please answer the question I posed, as I posed it? Thanks.

Runner and Trav,

How old is the Earth?

Dan,

Is Jesus walking on water into wine allegorical? Not fully off topic, as the alleged event involves transmutation

Oliver

'Runner and Trav,

' How old is the Earth?' Don't be lazy and do the maths. Oh that's right you believe in chaos and chance rather than design and order. You will be flat out getting geologist to agree on the age of the earth. As far as evolutionist are concerned the age will fit with their dogma.

Oliver,
I’m not sure of what question you asked, but I am quite aware of shell configuration, and quite aware that carbon forms the basis of organic compounds due primarily to its shell configuration.

However, to be able to grow and survive before it reproduces, a cell requires a myriad of chemical compounds and enzymes, many of which the cell knows how to synthesis, because these chemical compounds and enzymes do not come directly from a Big Bang.

mRNA mostly serves as a messenger molecule for DNA, and it is interesting that eukaryotic cells enclose their DNA molecules in a cell nucleus to protect them from damage. The cell closely guards its DNA, and uses mRNA to pass genetic code messages through the membrane of the cell nucleus.

Why?

Any damage to DNA will cause unwanted mutations, and mitosis and meiosis also take place under controlled conditions to avoid damage to chromosomes and chromatids. The cell actually devotes a lot of its resources to control and reduce genetic mutations.

However, according to the theory of evolution, mutations create a better species, so the more the better.

A major anomaly for the theory of evolution.

As more is discovered about the cell, the more outdated the theory of evolution becomes. (Because you seem interested in quantum physics, it would be similar to the Bohr model being found lacking, and eventually becoming superseded by the quantum mechanical model).

I’m also aware of people (and there appear to be quite a few on OLO) who automatically think that ID is religion, and they seem to religiously attack ID, because they religiously attack religion.

Their religion is to attack religion.

Ironic isn't it.

david quote..<<Intelligent design/is the assertion..>>>so you assert...

<<..that"certain features/of the universe/and of living things..are best explained..by an intelligent cause,not an undirected process..such as natural selection.">>..

natural selection is hardly..'undirected'...

lest we forget...females..can get pretty chosey..[pea=cocks tails..for egsample]..or those magnificent/..birds of paridise..or bower birds..

then there is the practical/..factors of utility/..alowing the fittest to survive...hardly undirected...lol

pell-i-can...quote..<<..creationism is based purely on faith;..>>pleeeease...i regard my trust/faith..in creationism...because..the alternative isnt provable..one way or the other..

im simply open..to how god did it

<<..there is no room for movement,>>>pleeease..im as flexable as the next dude..show me evidence for genus evolving..supply the right proofs...

simply speaking...its lacking...thus evolution/..out of genus..remains a theory...based on deception...abusing..miss-re-presenting..the natural vairiation..within a species..[within its genomic compliment]..

within all species...as being evidence..for evolving out of them...lol..when the science proves..the genus barrier,..holds firm..

there is not one documented case/recorded/witnessed/reported..where ANY/species..evolved..out of..their inherant/parental genus..ever

..<<question or review..for many fundamentalists..>>>im into the fun-di-mentals...as much as anyone...but fundimentalists..i got no time for..

please dont lable us/..all the same

..<<in the face of evidence..no matter how compelling>>>just because you think you have evidence..dosnt mean your facts match your belief in them..

to be saying..what you claim they say...

THERE IS NOT ONE REPORTED/scientificlly complete..change of genus...[evolution out of inherant paternal genus..EVER]...how insane is a warm/bolld..comming from a cold blood...its an intermediate...not able to be realised..if so present one

oliver..no-where does the bible state..6000 years...
i didnt state a length of time..neither does the bible

oliver quote..<<..“Atoms are matter,..>>..thats bull/shhh-it...atoms/need nuclie...needing protons/neutrons..etc

and atoms are of different weights etc..

i suggest..you clarify your under/standing..some more..
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=atoms+nuclie&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

http://trshare.triumf.ca/~safety/EHS/rpt/rpt_1/node2.html

<<and of course..lol..matter..and energy are interchangeable..(E=MC^2).>>.they are..not the same..at all

please dont think/..third grade/school..broad-brush..scamming..can subjicate the facts..simply to make some obsure point...

i do not..<<..agree that..“before”..life..we have inorganic matter>>..because everything needs a cause/reason/logic/means
...without them...causes..there is nothing...no man/..no thing..is an island...minerals cannot..make..life

<<and that after organic-life is created>>..by inferance living?..<<,..said organic living things..are reducible to inorganic matter>>.,..not all mater is inorganic..and mineral/inorganic is not living..not life

I agree, intelligent design is a desperate attempt by religion to stay relevant in an increasingly hostile environment (intellectually). There is simply no credible evidence that we are anything but an evolved species on planet Earth. By 'evolved' I don't mean advanced, as 'advanced' buys into the progressive model of human development, and it's more fashionable to put that down as arrogance, rather than subscribe to grand narratives.
However, it's a little purblind of us not to consider the possibility of a trajectory, rather than humbly subscribing to the doctrine of haphazard mutation. Humanity has been so routed and demeaned since the Enlightenment that it (the thinkers, not the religios) now quite literally embraces (on faith, rather than continuing to test the notion) it's indifferent station in the 'scheme of things' (sorry, 'random universe'; Freudian slip). And yet, we are far from knowing where it all ends! Surely the most abiding prejudice we possess is our blind acceptance of the linearity of time; that is that we are on the crest of the wave and the future unfurls as pure affect--predictably. I subscribe, naively, to this doctrine of cause and effect, but that doesn't mean that the here and now is where human history is both consummated and immanent (the present). And if this is not the 'present', then the future may bound off almost endlessly. We base our 'convictions' on what we know now, inductively; and yet we have every reason to suppose that those convictions will be overturned, as they have been, dialectically, hitherto.
In other words, there could be meaning or progress in the universe (indeed this is not without precedent) and hence, 'purpose'?

Dear Squeers,

Which mutations are viable and passed on are not haphazard. I don't agree that Enlightenment demeaned humanity. I see humanity liberated and free to question. The biblical narrative placed humans above other species. Questioning that narrative placed us with the other species and made us realise we are part of nature.

Linearity of time is a western gestalt. In eastern philosophy there is the theme of cyclic time. This passed into western philosophy with Schopenhauer. Nietzsche's theme of eternal recurrence expresses this idea.

I don't believe in progress. I think the only meaning we can give to life is in our living of it. I think the concept of an ultimate heat death of our universe is valid and makes the idea of progress ultimately meaningless.

The twentieth century saw the barbaric Nazis and the murder of possibly 100,000,000 by various communist entities. Even literacy can disappear. Scripts of the Harrapan civilisation cannot be deciphered because no counterpart of a Rosetta Stone has been found. It is estimated that the area lost literacy for about 1,000 years.

From http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/harappa-mohenjodaro.html:

Although , Harappa was undoubtedly occupied previously, it was between 2600-1900 B.C. that it reached its height of economic expansion and urban growth. ... Between 2800-2600 B.C. called the Kot Diji period, Harappa grew into a thriving economic center. It expanded into a substantial sized town, covering the area of several large shopping malls. Harappa, along with the other Indus Valley cities, had a level of architectural planning unparalleled in the ancient world. The city was laid out in a grid-like pattern with the orientation of streets and buildings according to the cardinal directions. ... The city had many drinking water wells, and a highly sophisticated system of waste removal. All Harappan houses were equipped with latrines, bathing houses, and sewage drains which emptied into larger mains and eventually deposited the fertile sludge on surrounding agricultural fields.

They say the Lion and the Lizard keep
The Courts where Jamshyd gloried and drank deep:
And Bahram, that great Hunter--the Wild Ass
Stamps o'er his Head, but cannot break his Sleep.