vana,

1."According to the laws of entropy, life should reduce in time as disorder increases."

2 "However, according to the theory of evolution, life increases and advances in time."

These two conditions can co-exist. Life is a sub-sysytem. Living (organised) things release heat energy into a larger system (the universe). It is okay, to have pockets of organisation like living organisms and solar systems. Life is a "closed" system as aptly noted by AJ.

It is the total system, where net disorder takes place. Even so, ultimately, we die and so do stars. In the end physics wins, yet, beforehand life can be organised by Nature and sustained for a prolonged time: viz., billions of years.

Understanding the sub-systems helps rather than prevents scientists to study evolution.

What did you think about the human body's list of inorganic elements? There is nothing listed that was not, as known by physics, to have come from the Big Bang or created in stars.

Essentally, you and I are animated Carbon.

Peterson,

Good sceince is not arrogant, rather it is independent and objective.

Maybe, we, humans are not smart enough to crack all the riddles of nature. If so, that is for the same reason dogs can't do calculus. Herein, assigning the gaps in human knowledge to the gods would seem to be the polyfiller of the psyche.

AJ Phillips,
A cell is a closed system surrounded by a membrane. According to entropy, the contents of a cell should be heading towards the maximum amount of disorder and the minimum amount of energy. The cell should be decaying and decomposing, and sunlight can aid that process. To prove this, just leave your salad sandwich in the sunlight.

But instead, the cell is growing, it is building proteins or substances it can secrete, and eventually the cell is trying to subdivide and reproduce.

Q How does a cell know to do that.
Standard evolution theory answer: - Through DNA.

Q How did DNA form?
Standard evolution theory answer: - By accident.

Q How did genes and codons form in a DNA molecule?
Standard evolution theory answer: - By accident.

Q How did transcription first occur?
Standard evolution theory answer: - By accident.

Q How did translation first occur?
Standard evolution theory answer: - By accident.

Q How did 2 DNA chromatids first coil up, join at a centromere and form a chromosome.
Standard evolution theory answer: - By accident.

Etc, etc.

It must be very convenient to have “accidents” as part of a theory.

I have also never heard that abuse (such as your calling people “ignorant” if they disagree with you) is actually a part of the scientific method, but maybe this is done to hide the flaws and gaps in the superficial theory.

Vanna,
Unfortunately, some people think that the purpose of OLO is to deride others who disagree with them. They don’t realise that thinking people might actually want to come here to engage with ideas in a stimulating and civil environment.

In my time here at OLO, I’ve met a few people who lean towards name calling when challenged with a view that’s different to theirs. Forgetting that the whole point of OLO is the interaction of different opinion, they take offense that someone may disagree with them and resort to some rather ‘choice’ adjectives.

I think it was my grade 3 teacher that told me that ‘empty cans make the loudest noise.’ Experience tells me it’s true.

Take courage. The good argument inevitably will shine through in the end.

Peterson, Thursday, 20 May 2010 12:56:54 AM

You're point about evolution being "a tool like a hammer and chisel of a sculptor" is a very valid one, yet you then negate that with a rant that is, well, one of the things you allude to.
........................................................

vanna, entropy is a nutty idea.

Evolutionary and abiogenesis things didn't happen by accident: they were a function of the covalent bonds that carbon is able to form - varied bonds to varied other atoms to form complicated molecules that can iinteract with other complicated molecules. Theologically, one could say God designed a lot of flexible molecules from malleable atoms (malleable atoms that came out of the nuclear fusion and fission of and in the stars).

McReal
A mountain can be formed, and after many years, it will weather away and become rubble, and eventually become dust that blows away in the wind. The mountain has now reached the maximum amount of disorder and the mountain no longer contains any energy (as potential energy).

That is entropy.

There are many covalent bonds in a protein within a cell, and many of those bonds require the right amount of activation energy and also the correct enzymes to form. If too many atoms in the macromolecule of a protein are not correctly aligned, the protein will not function properly and the protein can do more harm than good to the organism.

The underlying theme in the theory of evolution is that everything fits neatly into place through accident or by chance.

This negates having to look deeper.

But to prove that abiogenesis works, buy a TV set that is in 1000 pieces. Put all the pieces in a box and shake well. After many years of shaking, all the pieces should align and fit together, and you will now have a fully functional TV set.

According to the theory of abiogenesis.

Vanna,

Please excuse my earlier typo (vana).

You should think in terms of probability and quantum indetreminacy, rather than accident, in a huge universe and a plenty of time.

Look at the table (above). Are we composed of inorganic material? Yes/No? Life is inorganic material, that has been orgainised, improbable perhaos, but not impossible. After-all, we are here!

McReal,

Erwin Schrodinger was able to establish relationships between temperature changes and genes in the 1950s, and, in laboratory situations, using x-rays able to produce mutations; wherein, he developed several reliable formulae on the relationship between temperature and mutation.

On the other hand:

Instantly changing water into wine. Well, now, that would raise a few issues at the level of atomic chemistry. I'm sure many a Dan Brown character would have been suitable impressed by the energy released.I think we would have a cremation rather than a wedding.

runner,

Scientists adjusting their theories is good. Darwin's theories have been must refined. Dawins didn't have knowledge of DNA and would not have appreciated we carrying inheritances that go back three billion years, when we were related to bacteria. Tree shrews were epochs in the future, then.

Energy created in "closed" systems (AJ) of the oragism allows organisms to evade thermodynmical equlibrium. Of course, it cannot be sustained for ever. Though genes are pretty good au using various species (e.g., us) as transient hosts. We are merely roads and bridges, genes are the travellers.

Jesus, if he was made Man, therefore, was a Great Ape, with a biological heritage going back long before bedroom of David or Adam and his garden, to the early bio-sphere of the planet.

AJ,

I have read the Bible and suspect you have too. I wish some of OLO creationist friends would read some real science references. I assume they receive prepacked rebuttals from their Church magazines or similar.