I want some of what Squeers is smoking!

Of course, most of your wise assertions run directly counter to empirical evidence. Lesbian violence is not higher among butch/femme couples and women are actually more likely to initiate domestic violence than men (although women are more likely to get injured in the resulting retaliation) - I guess you didn't read the article I pointed you to. But, then again, why let facts stand in the way of a good argument.

"But regardless of all that, you're just not getting that the behaviour, and thinking, of both sexes is conditioned by a masculinised ontology. Women and men are affected at a deep psychological, and no doubt instinctual, level by testosterone-pumped behaviour. "

I'm not 'getting it' because your constructs do not match with reality.

Interestingly, many posters, including pelican in the last post, are suggesting that an alpha male/alpha female dynamic may offer a more parsimonious explanation for the power dynamics we see in society. It sucks to be a beta/omega anything :-(

Squeers, I am three weeks off 89, my wife having died four years at the age of 85.

Both in the military, while on leave we met at a military dance in 1952.

Though she had close boy-friends, I had only played the field, boozing too much to make a genuine date.

Surprisingly, we eventually grew to like one another's company, the like probably becoming genuine because after WW2 we were married for 63 years.

In our retirement from the farm, my wife developed a wonderful sense of art and photography, gardening being a natural part of it.

As a former soldier, my wife was tended by Palliative Care, I myself chosen to look after her in our home.

The night before she died with our own young family around, she whispered how much she loved me, I since ever wondering how a roughneck like me could ever be so loved by a wonderful person like Marj'?

Must say that while Marj' was the ordinary good Christian who believed in faith, I can only believe in Hope, feeling that Hope to meet some-one one loves in an AfterLife seems more genuine.

Squeers you put it so well.

From the posts so far, it seems to me that to an extent some have grasped the idea that males suffer too, but can't yet extend it to a systemic model that helps us conceptualize how people in general are enslaved by the dominant masculine discourse.

It's strange how people so vehemently defend the system/s that keeps them down yet all around us are examples of alternative ways of masculine being (which isn't just a matter of referring to homosexuality). There are many men who just go about their daily biz helping the missus wheel the kiddies around K-Mart and mowing the lawn, playing golf and so on. The small, slim, ineffectual library nerd; the all night musician; the paunchy accountant with milk-bottle glasses. How can these fellows be seen to embody the various over-valued masculine characteristics rationalized as having been essential in cromagnon survival - dominance, competitiveness, territoriality and what have you.

Yet the dominant value system explains and excuses the excesses of the greedy few who leech off the labours and consumerism of the masses while at the same time regarding them with contempt. I think it is a false consciousness that keeps people enslaved.

The type of masculinity/ies expressed by our K-Mart dad; nerd, musician and accountant demonstrate capacities for nurturing, generosity, refined cognitive activity, creativity, patience - but none of these (largely designated as feminine and therefore less valued) characteristics are championed.

So many just don't get that questioning the dominant masculine discourse as a system is not about hating men; it's about trying to see all that masculinity embodies and holding additional characteristics in high regard.

One of my disappointments as we see women gain a foothold in public institutions of some authority or power, is that too many of them tend to emulate the very behaviours that precipitated feminism as a movement in the first place. The whole idea was to change systems that devalued and excluded people rather than just perpetuate the same behaviours, motivations and characteristics. Joseph's ideas are timely.

Squeers and Pynchme

I agree with the points you have both made. I made reference in the past that men have more to fear from other men than they do from women.

Although, as Pynchme stated:

>> One of my disappointments as we see women gain a foothold in public institutions of some authority or power, is that too many of them tend to emulate the very behaviours that precipitated feminism as a movement in the first place. <<

Some of the worst bosses I ever had were female - aggressive, alienating, dismissive; emulating the worst of male leadership rather than the best. Preferring to manage by fear rather than lead by example.

The majority of men and women have much to gain from restructuring the limited image and scope of the 'masculine' and working towards something that is inclusive and human.

PS

And a big hug to Bushbred - you are always a true gentle-man - no wonder your wife loved you.

So far we’ve had people suggest my article implies “evil males”, “males are sad creatures”, “males are the scum of the earth”, males “should be castrated at birth”. We’ve had people out me as “Marxist” and even describe me as “demonic’. What next, perhaps I am a witch?

These comments argue against a position I do not advocate. Your conditioning in the conspiracy literally appears to be blinding you from reading the words written on the screen, replacing them with some strange fantasy which speaks to your own prejudices rather than my article. Such is the depth of the conditioning that your immediate response to this is no doubt to claim that *I* am the one subject to some strange fantasy.

But if you were being honest, you’ll notice that I am sticking to what is referred to in the article, not derailing into some imaginary sub-text. I am the one keeping a level head. I am attempting to open the conversation up; you are attempting to shut the conversation down. This is the way power asserts control over its domain. This is the way the Masculinity Conspiracy is perpetuated.