Runner <take God out of the equation and you end up with Hitler,Mao,Stalin and abortion.>

God was very much in the equation when it comes to the Jews and Hitler. The Jews were very devout followers of the Christian God. Where was he when Hitler gassed them all? After all their devotion and years of sacrifice and worship. Where was he? Shouldn't he at least have worked behind the scenes to bring about some barrier to this happening.

Bring God into the equation and you also have Bloody Mary Queen of England who cut off many heads simply because they refused to believe in the Catholic faith. Religion, offers followers the perfect excuse for genocide. If you are not of God, then you must be of the devil like the Infidels or the Heretics. It is not wrong to kill the devil is it? In fact it is a brave and noble act.

Speaking of the right to live you have the recent George Bush(a devout Christian), refusing permission for some poor woman who had been in a hopeless vegetative state for 20years to have her life support turned off because of his belief in the right to life while at the same time he has the American Army bombing Iraq.

If life is God's to give and take, then how come man interfered with God's will by keeping the above mentioned girl alive for 20years by artifical means, how do they know God did not have some unknown reason for her to die? They are in effect just as guilty of playing God in that case too. What about people who should have died at the scene of a road accident but are kept alive by man playing God. It seems that religious people like to suit themselves about what is Gods will and what isn't.

JOEL BEVIN:-BY ATTACHING LABELS TO RELIGIONS SOCIETY PROMOTES THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES ONCE MEMBERSHIP HAS BEEN ATTAINED-INERTIA

OR-She'll be right mate because God will take care of it.
Translated this means- we don't have to take any practical steps or think about it too much because we will be protected.

I think that is probably the exact thinking that made the Jews so passive in the face of Hitler's agression.

Cherful

It was Hitler playing God that led to the slaughter of the Jews. God was where He always has been (on His throne) seeing what happens when men think they are God. God was also on His throne when His Son hung on the cross for your wickedness and mine. He is also the God that has again brought Israel together as a nation despite wicked men trying time and time again to wipe this people out. Yes sin, death and man's arrogance leads to horrible events but its not surprising when one looks at human nature whether it is hiding behind religion or atheism. It would be nice to think you are a part of the problem Cherful but I have bad news for you. You are!

I would say that if you take God out of the equation and you bring in the devil. The Catholic church has had much blood on its hands along with others who have put themselves in the place of God. North Korean and Chinese Governments are good examples of this.

Personally I would agree with you in regards to life support. Considering Jesus healed many who were sick that came to Him I can not see people receiving medical support at the scene of an accident as playing God. I would see it more as serving His purposes.

The fact that Christians more than any other group in history ( except maybe Government funded junkets) provide for the poor, needy and downcast shows that many in fact don't have the 'She'll be right, God will take care of it attitude'. In fact many see it as their responsibility to serve humanity as Christ did because of their faith

Joel,

Since you apparently do not believe in God you are first and foremost an atheist.

Welcome aboard!

"I imagine a world where humans believe in whatever makes sense to them. I dream of judgment being based on how we live rather than on what we wear around our necks, the amount of flesh we expose and the type of building we kneel at. May belief prosper but may the labels that we gain without discretion disappear. Let the world consist of only one label, the label of humanity."

I imagine a world where humans believe in things that they have evidence for. I dream of judgment being based on logic and reason rather than in attempting to please Sky Fairies. My belief without justification disappear, and the decisions that affect people's lives be based on the best possible evidence and the clearest logic. Let the world consist of only one guide to decision-making, the principle of rationality.

Confounding several illogical systems does not produce a logical one.

Actually stevenlmeyer, I am not an anything. I don't claim, like every religion does, including yours, to know the answers for why we are here and where we are going.

There may be a God, a heaven, a hell and even 72 virgins waiting in paradise, but to begin to speak with certainty about this seems to me to be a little naive. I much prefer to let those questions go unanswered (although constantly philosophised) and live according to what I believe is right with no definite end result.