@Trav: Quantum physics has not shown that something can come from nothing.

I suggest you paste that statement into Google and look at what you find. Quantum physics has indeed shown something can come from nothing, and in fact it happens all the time, and more to the point has been observed.

Trav,

A generation is generally accepted as 20 years or less.

Whether you call it chinese whispers or whatever else, stories carried linguistically tend to evolve and be embellished.

The gospels are extremely unlikely to be an accurate account.

trav, i'll take your questions seriously, though i think they consistently get the wrong end of the stick.

>> but they rarely attempt to articulate what sort of evidence or reasons they'd EXPECT to see if a God DID exist.

it is not my job. i simply see no need to consider such notions, and no evidence for believing in anything like god-as-thinking-being. there are gaps in my understanding of the universe and my place in it, but i don't see invoking a god as helping.

>> Secondly, what are your reasons for believing that, say, miracles are ridiculous?

in general, if i cannot explain something, i am happy to say that i merely don't know the explanation, rather than covering the gap of my understanding with "god did it".

however, there must be some point where properly documented "miracle" would make me question. perhaps, if there was evidence that praying cured a few amputees, i'd consider miracle cures. but, a couple of unexplained cancer cases doesn't even remotely cut it.

let's turn your question around: why do you think the catholic church is so eager to declare mckillop a saint on such farcically flimsy evidence? why do you think the australian media has reported this nonsense in such a compliant and uncritical manner?

>> Or that belief in God is ridiculous?

it depends upon what you mean by "god". there are people who talk of "god" in a strange, amorphous manner. i don't find such beliefs ridiculous, merely incomprehensible.

what i find ridiculous are substantive beliefs, of the nature i have outlined. mary was a virgin or she wasn't, and it is prima facie ridiculous to believe that she was. so, if you can give me no reason to consider this belief, other than that millions of others believe, i will chuckle and consign such belief to the tooth fairy bin.

there are many christians (though i'd guess a tiny minority) who seem to make fine sense of christianity without such substantive beliefs. i don't know how they do it. but again, i don't find this ridiculous, just incomprehensible.

GrahamY, you say that atheists have faith, which led me to Google 'faith'. One of the definitions I found was "Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness of a person, concept or thing." On that basis I'd have to say that my atheism (and I do not speak for anyone other than myself) is definitely not faith based. I am merely without any belief in the existence of any gods, just as I am any without belief that the sun will set in the east tonight or that I will be ten centimetres taller tomorrow morning

Yet another discussion thread hijacked by believers resorting to all kinds of theological sophistry to obfuscate and avoid central issues. And we atheists frequently fall into the trap of debating them on their turf.

I'm a simple fellow and like to keep things simple, so can you believers kindly provide me with straightforward answers to a few basic questions?

1. Why do you believe when there is no evidence for a god/gods? Nothing, not one whit, no miracles, diddlysquat? No sophistry please.

2. When there are so many religions on offer, why are you so sure yours is the right one? Try to be honest here - how did you choose?

3. Your churches generally present your god as benevolent, omniscient and omnipresent. Why does your god choose not to do good? Example curing children with cancer. Straightforward answers please.

4. Do you believe in sacrifice for the sins of others? Does this concept trouble you or should you follow god's example?

I am sure my fellow atheists have plenty of other and better questions, but can you believers please start with these?

Theists are wrong when they say that atheism is a faith and that atheism is a religion or even that atheists are proselytising.

Atheists do not reject the possibility of a god (I leave a tiny gap so that I can accept that there is a God in the very unlikely case that I find proof that one exists); atheists are just not convinced that there MUST be a god. As an atheist, I expect positive assertions (“god exists”) to be based on evidence, to be supported by evidence. Atheists don’t see any value in gullibility.

Atheists are not selling another religion. They are just not buying the 'products' religions are selling.
I heard someone say that atheists can be compared to consumer watchdogs. They focus on what the religious are selling and whether their product (read Claims) are supported by evidence.

Someone in this discussion said that atheists are proselytising. Atheists are not promoting themselves; they're promoting such things as clear thinking, evidence, reason, logic.
Helping people see that there is no good reason to believe in unsupported, ridiculous nonsense without evidence is not proselytising. They are not promoting ‘atheism’ as such. Atheism is something that would not even exists without theism.
So, if they promoted atheism as some sort of philosophy or religion, then they would eventually negate atheism since atheism wouldn’t even exist without theism.

Sam Harris once said that there shouldn’t even be a word such as atheism. There are no words for not accepting other baseless nonsense such as homeopathy, or astrology.

Bushbasher,
“… how disgusting is their use of "militant" to label speakers such as dawkins...”
You took the words out of my mouth! Religion needs to fly planes into buildings or blow up abortion clinics before labelled ‘militant’. Atheists just need to express their view, question unsubstantial claims and they are labelled militant, or strident! Ain’t it strange how gullibility is glorified by theists and doubt is called evil?