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The Forum > General Discussion > Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

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I've been watching the PBS News hour on television.
Only 19% of American Jews support
the US President's move.

Julie Bishop has announced
that Australia does not support the US in this matter.
The International community - is united in saying
recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel
is disastrous for any hopes of reviving meaningful peace
talks.

The status of Jerusalem is one of the pivotal issues
that diplomats and peacemakers have said must be agreed
between the two parties (Palestine and Israel)
in negotiations.

Donald Trump's abandonment of decades of US policy has
set him at odds with the rest of the world and could have
far-reaching consequences.

In 2015, Palestinians made up 37% of the city's population of
about 850,000. Many live in overcrowded homes and
neighbourhoods, unable to get permits to build or extend.
Three quarters live below the poverty line and 25% live
in neighbourhoods cut off from the rest of the city by the
separation barrier.

It is difficult to see how Trump's move will improve conditions
for them. Nir Barkat, the city's mayor, said on Wednesday,
"Here in Jerusalem and Israel we applaud the president
and if people become violent they will pay a heavy price."
Palestinians already are. Some 200,000 Israelis live in
settlements in occupied East Jerusalem, illegal under
international law. They will celebrate along with the Israel
government the US President's decision.

This will reinforce the view of many Israeli politicians that
there is little to be gained by negotiating with the Palestinians.
A very bad move on behalf of the US President.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 7 December 2017 1:33:08 PM
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".. the Israeli position is mainly based on the current municipality boundaries of Jerusalem, which resulted from a series of administrative enlargements decided by Israeli municipal authorities since the June 1967 Six-Day War. ."
The Prime Minister , Vladimir Putin , used city authority decisions to enlarge his title to Ukraine-Poland and approve settlements in Crimea . A quick tweet to Trump Towers , simple movements by tanks and the capital works were approved. China announced it would not buy the Philippines until the price became more tempting but Darwin is ready to go , also some cheaper lines in Canberra ministers.
Posted by nicknamenick, Thursday, 7 December 2017 2:03:53 PM
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SR,

I take it that what you are saying is there is no reason to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital other than trying to force Israel to come to the table?

Given that the Palestinians have still refused to recognize Israel's right to exist and have pre conditions for talks that essentially require Israel's total capitulation, it can be reasonably argued that there is no serious intention of the Palestinians to negotiate.

If this is true then the Palestinians are the ones that need the prodding to come to the table, and since doing bugger all has kept their leaders in power perhaps a sign that a complete failure to compromise has consequences might prod them into doing the right thing.

I see that the Czech republic has now followed suit.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 7 December 2017 2:16:51 PM
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Jerusalem has always been the capital of Israel. This has long since been agreed, with the Congress voting back in the 1990s to so recognise it. The US Senate voted 90-0. The Obamessiah agreed in 2008, but he was seeking election. After the election he was more 'flexible'.

Trump promised to move the embassy as part of his election platform. It seems people are unused to politicians keeping their promises.

There is only one way peace will come to this region and that is when the so-called Palestinians come to understand that the deals already offered are the best they can get. Until now they have hoped that by holding out they will eventually get a better deal which will allow them to eventually destroy the Jewish state. Trump is disabusing them of this notion.

The US Congress has also voted to cut off funds to the Palestinian kleptocrats until they stop the policy of rewarding the families of those who murder Jews and infidels.

It is rumoured that there are secret deals being made between Israel and the Saudis who are terrified of Iran and the bomb that Obama has virtually gifted them. It makes sense that Israel and Saudi draw closer together. But this clearly means that there will be less Arab support for the so-called Palestinians.

The tide is moving against them. Perhaps they'll come to realise that they cannot win and that there'll never be a better time to make genuine peace than right now. Perhaps they just need a gentle nudge.

What I can't work out is why Trump would appear to be helping the Jewish state. After all, we keep getting told by our moral betters that he's a Nazi and white supremacists. Something doesn't make sense there </sarc>
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 7 December 2017 2:20:54 PM
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The United Nations has never recognised Jerusalem
as Israel's capital because of its historical
importance to other religions.

In its 1947 plan on partition, the United Nations
divided the holy land into two nations - but
deliberately left out Jerusalem out of the equation as
a special entity in recognition of its shared religious
importance.

Foreign governments, in recognition of international law
have in turn refused to recognise Israel's sovereingty
over Jerusalem, unless or until the city's status is
decided through formal peace negotiations.

More than 150 nations including Australia maintain their
diplomatic missions in Tel Aviv. None appear ready to
follow Mr Trump's decision.

It should be noted that Israel captured the Arab half of
Jerusalem (as well as the West Bank) from Jordon in the
Six Day War of 1967. Under international law the land
remains occupied territory. The United Nations does not
recognise Israel's right to the land. Of course some
200,000 Israelis living in the settlements in occupied
East Jerusalem, illegal under international law will
celebrate Mr Trump's decision, as will the Israeli
government.

The problem will continue with both Israeli and Palestinians
claiming the city as their rightful capital.

More on this complex issue at: -

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-07/why-trump-recognising-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-is-complex/9236268
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 7 December 2017 3:41:09 PM
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Of course, Jerusalem should ultimately be recognised as the capital of Israel, but timing is crucial - now is entirely inappropriate. Maybe in forty years. Expect many, many violent reactions across the Muslim world tomorrow night. Perhaps a thousand killed in Pakistan alone, including many innocent Shi'ites, Sufis, Bahai's and Christians - what great fun !

Of course, Jerusalem has been a Jewish city, on and off, for three thousand years. If figures such as David and Solomon actually existed, then yes, three thousand years.

I've wondered how on earth Jerusalem could be a Muslim city. The only connection I can think of is that Muhammad flew there on a winged horse with a woman's face, on the night that he died. Okay, that makes sense. But why to Jerusalem ? Because the only way to get to Heaven was by climbing Jacob's Ladder which extended above the Temple of Solomon to Heaven, according to Jewish custom. That raises the issue that perhaps very early Islam was formed out of a break-away Jewish sect ?

It's well known that there was a stud farm for breeding winged horses south of Mecca - it still operates. As it happens, my grandfather was in Palestine at the end of the First World War. He was on very good terms with a Bedouin leader who asked him, as a crack horse-breaker, to go down there and break in a few of their more difficult horses. He found them to be very skittish, so he said, small and dainty ponies, but soon had them under control. He found it easy to ride them, he just had to hang onto the wings. In fact, he flew on one back to Beersheba to rejoin the Remounts. So there you go: Jerusalem is a Muslim city.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Thursday, 7 December 2017 3:46:24 PM
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