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The Forum > General Discussion > Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

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I could be wrong: Maybe

(A). Trump has a very cunning plan, perhaps to force the issue, with a bit of collateral damage of course, but to bring people to the table, to all agree to a two-state solution with Jerusalem as the capital of Israel; [yeah, that should work];

OR

(B). he IS a moron.

I suppose we'll see by the end of this weekend.

My money is on option (B).

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Friday, 8 December 2017 9:34:12 AM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

Please don't deflect.

I was obviously addressing this bit of nonsense from you;

“Given that the Palestinians have still refused to recognize Israel's right to exist and have pre conditions for talks that essentially require Israel's total capitulation, it can be reasonably argued that there is no serious intention of the Palestinians to negotiate.”

The Palestinians have repeatedly agreed to recognise Israel's right to exist. way back in 1988 Arafat made that commitment and in 1993 followed it up with a letter to the Israeli PM in which he declared;

“The signing of the Declaration of Principles marks a new era...I would like to confirm the following PLO commitments: The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.”

What Israel later did was to raise the ante by saying this was not good enough and instead insisting that the Palestinians now must recognise Israel as a Jewish state, something I fully agree they should never have to do especially given the number of non-Jewish people who live there.

But we have been through this before and yet you still roll out your go to falsehoods whenever this issue is raised. I really do find it distasteful.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 8 December 2017 9:44:31 AM
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Foxy,

I'm surprised that you had the sensitivity to realise that my comments were directed at people like you; you appear to have had a brief relapse from your sanctimonious, goody two shoes, never wrong, bullying, usual self. Your are insufferable.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 8 December 2017 10:43:32 AM
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SR,

I then take it that you have accepted all the points I raised in my previous:

1 West Jerusalem has been part of Israel since 1948, is recognized as such by the international community.
2 West Jerusalem is not subject to any claims by the Palestinians.
3 All major arms of the government of Israel has been based in West Jerusalem since 1948.
4 West Jerusalem has already been recognized as the capital of Israel by Russia in April, and now by the Czech republic.
5 The Palestinians have effectively refused to negotiate for more than a decade.
6 The US has had legislation passed for 2 decades to move the US embassy from Tel-Aviv to Jerusalem.

With regards Israels right to exist, I believe the letter from Arafat stated: "the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid".

However, the situation to date is that the PLO charter has not been changed and still refuses to recognize Israel, and secondly as Hamas now represents about half of the Palestinians and they firmly refuse to recognize Israel's right to exist, I find your insistence that the Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist as somewhat hard to swallow.

Foxy,

The recognition that Israel's capital is Jerusalem does not necessarily recognize Israel's sovereignty over the entire city, and thus does not violate any international law, otherwise Russia would not have done so.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 8 December 2017 11:13:45 AM
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ttbn,

Oh dear, more skid marks coming out of your
mouth instead of your rear-end.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 8 December 2017 11:14:58 AM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

“The Palestinians have effectively refused to negotiate for more than a decade.”

The Palestinians have insisted that the expansion of illegal settlements be completely halted before negotiations can progress. Why is that an anathema to you?

To any fair minded person this is a completely valid position. These settlements are against international law. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

The Palestinians are far more accepting the right of Israel to exist than the Israelis are of a Palestinian state especially along the 67 borders.

How about you park the ideology and accept the facts on the ground.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 8 December 2017 11:25:25 AM
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