*Lordy* in the wilderness at a time of self deprivation, also known to induce such experiences, is another example.

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Oh, and re the "presence," as mentioned previously in this place, do have a look at Dr Michael Persinger's God Helm,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Persinger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YPOTaUyvA0

and also a number of in depth interviews with him. Absolutely fascinating stuff.

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Now, I am not casting a view on whether El Goddo is or is not, but rather that the phenomena that are often subscribed as being evidence of *Lordy* are often able to be explained by other means.

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Ponder the bit about "no graven images" and I would not be surprised to learn that this meant more to the people who coined it than merely drawing or creating a deity figure on a piece of paper or otherwise.

I saw a doco some time ago on either *Nat Geo* or *BBC Knowledge* from memory on a particular catholic nunnery.

They practiced certain varieties of prayer and meditation techniques and introduced these to the subjects of the film which were a group of young women who came to try life at the convent.

Anyway, as one may expect, the nuns pumped these girls' with Jesus talk solid, and, then one of them got the fright of her life when during the meditation technique she claimed to hear *Jesus* speak to her, to the approval of all of the nuns.

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Hmmm ..

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Now, I don't know the truth of it, but I have heard it claimed in religious circles that abstinence, and the channeling (somehow or another) of the sexual energies can assist in the process of bringing about this kind of phenomena. A number of religions have these types of "mystical" practices, say for example the so called Kundalini Yoga of certain Hindu traditions.

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So, to draw a long bow, and thinking about *George Negus* on *Date Line* referring to the claim from the Vatican that they have "God on their side" in relation to certain investigations into the matter of child sexual abuse, it leaves me wondering whether in fact that their religious practices in conjunction with sexual abstinence and likely a genetic predisposition in the case of some of them, has brought about a situation where some of them are convinced that *God* talks to them, when in fact all that is occurring is that their consciousness is generating an ala "auditory hallucination" type of echo like response.

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Given that a lot of their behavior both current and historical is rather less than "Godly" I expect that it is more likely than not.

Some recent research in support of some of my earlier comments:

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http://www.schizophreniaforum.org/new/detail.asp?id=1605

" ... Zinc Finger Gene Points to Schizophrenia Subtype With Spared Cognition

29 July 2010. A clue to the possible role of the ZNF804A gene in psychotic disorders comes from a new study in the July Archives of General Psychiatry. Gary Donohoe of Trinity College in Dublin, Ireland, and colleagues found evidence that the risk variant found in genomewide association studies of psychosis, rather surprisingly, is associated with better performance on certain working and episodic memory tasks in schizophrenia, and thus could define a group of people whose cognition remains relatively intact despite their other symptoms. This group, the authors speculate, may comprise a genetically unique type of schizophrenia that arises through a distinct pathway—a notion that, if backed by future studies, may affect psychiatric research, diagnosis, and treatment. ... "

DreamOn: Hiya. I read somewhere that Richard Dawkins once participated in the Persinger experimental procedure, for about 45 mins, and didn't have any religious-type experience or anything remarkable.

This suggests to me that some people are more open to religious phenomena, some are not.

If it were simple: subject + stimulus = amazing reaction, then we'd see a 100 percent response. There are some other mediating factors; yet to be identified. It will be interesting to read more as the experiments progress.

Btw - I am a very pragmatic individual who neither needs nor seeks any experience out of the unusual. My religious convictions even prevent me from dabbling with anything that delves into that area (like ouija and all that). However, I have had an experience or two, and one of them at least was absolutely verified. I know that there is more happening beyond our physical realm.

Pericles asks:

"My only question would be to ask you, why you believe that you were singled out for such attention, when there were, at that very moment, people far worse off than you that needed his help."

and with that..I have to raise my eyebrows in the same way..I don't have a clue, and I absolutely know it has nothing to do with anything special about 'me'...rather it seems in spite of rather than because of.

I asked the same question Pericles. I suppose deep at heart most of would like to be more significant than we really are, and perhaps that natural inclination in me would like to think that God has something special for me yet in life ? One thing I can assure you of, when my mind heads in that direction, I never see it in terms of anything for 'me'..and it never involves earthly power or riches or success. My mind considers only one thing in those moments...that people would be swayed toward the Grace of God.

Pynchme..regarding some people more susceptable than others... I was in a mass hypnotist meeting once (when I was about 16/17) and the hypnotist tried to determine who was more open to suggestion..and he said .."First.. join your hands together interlocking your fingers...then..when I count to three.. you will not be able to unlock them" !

Voila.. there were either a lot of cheeky people there or about 5% of us were 'hypnotized' and could not unlock our fingers. I was not among them.

dreamy :) I am reading your posts.. pressed for time right now...

Salam hormat dan moga2 anda diberkati :)