Here's the latest on the Swine flu. The situation is evolving rapidly, so if you want to post more links, go for it.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25398539-601,00.html

We're in the early stages right now, of what's being classed by the WHO as a level-4 pandemic risk. About 150 are dead so far in Mexico.

I'm more than a little worried by this one, to be honest, and this is coming from someone who generally thinks media scares are overstated.

The SARS and bird flu outbreaks didn't really scare me. In the case of bird flu, human to human transmissions didn't eventuate, certainly not by airborne means. I was always pretty optimistic that things weren't going to get out of hand.

This swine flu however, clearly is transmitted from person to person. What's more worrying is that it kills people in the prime of their life. Fortunately, children seem to have a natural resistance, which is the one piece of good news here.

Discuss:

1) What is the scale of this one going to be?
2) Is it containable?
3) Are you making an plans in relation to it?

The most successful viruses tend to be non-fatal. They evolve that way, as it assists their spread. In this case however, the potential for spread is massive. People don't die immediately, by the time symptoms are clearly displayed the virus is capable of transmission.

My guess is we're looking at deaths that will probably reach into the tens of thousands globally.
Perhaps into the hundreds of thousands, though I'm hoping it doesn't go that far or higher.
Mostly, they will be in poorer nations, but there will of course be fatalities elsewhere. We're not going to get out of this unscathed. Aside from the fatalities, we're looking at massive disruption to our society.

Update:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25399245-601,00.html

The World Health Organisation puts the threat level at Phase 4 on a scale of 1-6, indicating a “significant increase in risk of a pandemic.”

MEXICO: Epicentre of the current outbreak and only nation with confirmed swine flu deaths (20). Another 129 suspected deaths and 1,614 suspected infections

NATIONS WITH CONFIRMED INFECTIONS: Britain 2, Canada 6 (+10-12 suspected), Spain 1 (+26 suspected), United States 44

NATIONS WITH SUSPECTED INFECTIONS: Australia 17, Chile 8, Colombia 9, Denmark 5, France 1, Ireland 3, Israel 1, New Zealand 66, South Korea 1, Sweden 5, Switzerland 5

NATIONS WITH PARTIAL OR TOTAL BANS ON PORK IMPORTS: China, Indonesia, Lebanon, Russia, Thailand, Ukraine

A video with answers to basic FAQs.

http://player.video.news.com.au/theaustralian/#ho2xuSZmQV8NhOYGqMedCxGPesAJc1d9

OK, it's serious, and people are dying, but let's not panic just yet.
They're in the early stages of dealing with it, and they've got pretty good at it too, over time, so let's just take reasonable precautions and wait and see. If it's the "Horror" one, we'll know soon enough.

TRTL mate I think it is next to impossible to guess where this will go I read a few days back that the kill rate for swine flu in Mexico is 7% and the kill rate for the 1918-19 flu was 2.5%. The 1918-19 was known about for a number of months before it mutated into the more deadly form, so this swine flu could be around for months or even a year or two before it mutates into a more deadly form. But then again it maybe in that more deadly form now. Here is the link http://www.physorg.com/news159946708.html

There is no reason to panic now but if it is anything like the 1918-19 flu I would think the death toll globally will be in the hundreds of millions and it will cause TOTAL chaos in every country in the world like we have never seen before. Everything from pubs to airports and schools and shopping centers will have to be closed and will probably be closed for months. Lets hope this one just fizzles out.

Some helpful facts. http://www.physorg.com/news159861216.html

Y2K, Global warming, Bird flu, there is always some "authority" who wants to hear & see themselves on TV.

You're an OLO veteran, TRTL. You know there'll be more Hasbeens.

25% percent of posters will say it's alarmism. Another 25% will say it's god's will. Try not to get sidetracked!

You can bet on that, Sancho.

One thing about being a hasbeen, is you've been around a while. You may not have seen it all, but you have seen quite a bit. Some of us wise up, after buying only a couple of harbour bridges.

How about Coral bleaching will kill the whole reef; Crown of Thorns will eat the whole damn thing; The dams will be dry by June, you are gunna drink sewage; Oh, & the oil will all be gone by 1989, 1999, 2009, or some new date, on a slow news day.

For your sake, go do something dangerous, go motor cross racing, get a legitimate fright, & get the adrenalin pumping for some real reason, this synthetic stuff will rot your boots.

The Spanish Flu in 1919 killed 20 million people.2% of all male deaths are due to ordinary flu.Sars and bird flu have come and gone.We won't know for a few months how virilant swine flu is.
Keep a level head.

please note each link has other links[at the end of the page[pre comments[often the comments have the real info]
the figures are lso in dispute[80 confirmed hospitalised..re the students in the us school[none died]
and the mexican figures not all confirmed swine flue deaths[note how none died anywhere else]just mexico?

please note this is a recombinant weopenised flue[made from a holy trinity of bird/swine/human flues]
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2711#60993
straight from 3 viles that went missing from the lab

note re previous pannic[the police trefuse to be inoculated and the panic died down
[vacines often kill more than the disease
[search out how the solgers were injected ww1,any weonder so many died from that spanish flue...lol]

Weaponizing Deadly Viruses:Historical Precedents
der spiegal reports live weopenised bird flue container
[misslabled,hapend to explode on a swiss train..lol
google it thyself
anyhow from
http://www.infowars.com/

History is replete with examples of government using biological and chemical agents for political purpose.

http://www.infowars.com/weaponizing-deadly-viruses-historical-precedents/

Time Magazine Preps Americans For Mandatory Vaccinations

Paul Joseph Watson Says public should“trust”government when it institutes draconian measures to deal with pandemic.
http://www.infowars.com/time-magazine-preps-americans-for-mandatory-vaccinations/

Government“Template”for Mass Vaccination

“The dispensing of medications/vaccine is a core function of the Strategic National Stockpile(SNS)plan and preparedness,”according to a Regional Counter Terrorism Task Forces document.

http://www.infowars.com/government-template-for-mass-vaccination/

On the Flu Bug and Those Disappearing Microbiologists
http://www.infowars.com/on-the-flu-bug-and-those-disappearing-microbiologists/
Jolly Roger After people do start dropping like flies,political dissidents will be accused of being flu carriers and no one will object to them being hauled away.
http://www.infowars.com/merck-drew-up-hit-list-of-doctors-to-be-neutralized/
http://www.infowars.com/seal-us-mexico-border-to-prevent-spread-of-swine-flu-says-democratic-homeland-security-committee-member/
http://www.infowars.com/the-failed-border-security-initiative/
http://www.infowars.com/obama-says-swine-flu-not-a-cause-for-alarm/
http://www.infowars.com/weaponizing-deadly-viruses-historical-precedents/
http://www.infowars.com/swine-flu-vaccination-propaganda-from-1976/
tomorrow more from
http://whatreallyhappened.com/
get informed people
if you get the sniffles go big doses on vit c
and up your body ph..[baking soda]
if you think govt is serving you, how come your so sure

tamaflue contains angel dust[so expect phycotic stuff when our''servants''start taking''it''][you think things are insane now..lol..anyhow from what really hapend..for you guys too busy working to click on the link your self

Swine flu is a man made virus ?
2 types of human flu spliced with 1 form of avian flu,..and different forms of swine flu..YOU DECIDE.........

..sources quoted by him say it could bemanmade...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnSX_jS0STA
i suspect it was planned a long time ago

FLASHBACK - Scientist calls for death to humanity..[gets standing ovation..[so suspect their serious this time]the mex are dropping like flies reportedly
http://www.newsweekly.com.au/articles/2006apr15_s.html

anyhow..the survivors will have their global/warning-tax
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2009/04/28/gore-cant-remember-if-he-worked-with-ken-lay-on-the-carbon-tax-credits-plan-in-1997/

those face masks dont do nothing..recall the indians were given smallpox/laced blankets..[virus are very small]..get docters to wear particle/masks at least..[but the plan might well be that the docters die off later from their inoculations..[of cancer[heck..we..swallowed the lie of 19,000 deaths from the act of/smoking,[we didnt do autopsies in the good-times..[why would they in a pandemic?

face/masks dont filter out microbugs]..didnt work for mexico,..did it?[when you see the face masks go home or calmly take them then go lie/down at home..[whats the case fatality rate..[what races]..watch for racists killing mexicans..lol

anyhow the advice is wear your silver..[like when jews took their gold]..enriches the people going to bury many of us http://colloidalsilversecrets.blogspot.com/2009/04/colloidal-silver-and-swine-flu-7.html
so who knows at least the carers get some wealth before they die..[too]..anyhow take the lead from our past

http://www.rense.com/general74/amak.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkzUGguIKWA
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=92842&sectionid=3510212
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/simon-carr/simon-carr-we-must-be-gullible-to-keep-listening-to-these-scares-1674766.html

its worth noting DONT panic..[remember those riot police will be on angel/dust..[tamilflue]..lol

anyhow i turned from news/radio to easy/listening music..speculation..[or anger]is futile[..forgive them[us]lord we know not what we do/did..lol..know this is satans-realm..BUT[the next is according as we did in this one..lol[love is all we need][work not for the goods of the flesh]

http://whatreallyhappened.com/
http://www.prisonplanet.com/#

http://www.prisonplanet.com/flashback-another-flu-pandemic-causing-accident-occurred-in-2005.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/ron-paul-warns-swine-flu-scare-will-be-used-as-precedent-for-more-big-government.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/container-carrying-swine-flu-virus-explodes-on-swiss-train.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/facemasks-could-make-swine-flu-pandemic-worse.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/fda-approves-emergency-measures-for-mass-dosing-of-us-citizens.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/baxter-gilead-make-money-from-swine-flu.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/flu-fears-dampen-talk-of-tentative-world-recovery.html
lol..what use guilt/and wealth without health[or open shops to spend it in]

I just had a little look through my conspiracy files and found an interesting read about population control. Mankind knows it cant afford any other type of conventional method of reducing population like war or contraception, so do you think they might use the micro world to do the job for them?

Think about! it only kills one thing.

HUMANS.

EVO

The Indonesian Health Minister has said it's possible this is a man-made virus to boost the profits of pharmaceutical companies.

As paranoid conspiracy theories go, it's quite impressive. IMHO however, it's foolish and naive.

Good news: the cases outside Mexico have been more mild. There haven't been any fatalities in the US. Also, the number of daily deaths in Mexico have reduced from 5 to 3.

Bad news: a school in mainland China has been shut down with suspected cases, however nobody there has recently arrived from Mexico, leading me to believe it's just a precaution. If the virus hits mainland China, it will spread very quickly and be difficult to contain.

No confirmed cases in Australia yet, though there are suspected cases in all states.

There's been confirmation of cases in New Zealand.

Meanwhile, these are the countermeasures being espoused as part of a 'fortress Australia' plan.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25402852-601,00.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB5-Y08qbjo

nuff said!

Dear TRTL,

Yes, I am worried, not scared sh'tless, but
concerned.

I've got two elderly mothers that I'm looking
after. One's 88, the other will be 90 this year.
Both are very fragile. Plus a partially-paralysed
step-father in a nursing home. All of whom I love
dearly - and want to live forever. I know they've
had a "good run," as my brother puts it. But I
would be devastated to lose any one of them.
They've all had their flu-shots - so fingers-crossed
that this pandemic doesn't reach our shores.

Some good news:

A representative from the WHO is saying that the 150 figure is overstated, and that they've only confirmed 7 deaths, all in Mexico.

Mexican officials are saying 20 deaths.

I dunno where the 150 figure comes from, but it's being widely reported.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/who-says-only-seven-confirmed-swine-flu-deaths-20090429-amlk.html

http://articles.mercola.com/redirect/view.aspx?Email=johanhendrick@ozemail.com.au&ReturnURL=http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/04/29/Swine-Flu.aspx

Critical Alert:The Swine Flu Pandemic -- Fact or Fiction?

Urgent and vital information you need to know about the new swine flu threat that should help you sort through all the mixed messages the media is giving you.

Normally our editorial process has us test,research and review articles over a three week period before it finally reaches the newsletter....However,this article is an exception which is why it is coming out as a special alert.

The searches for swine flu on our search engine has broken all our records,..so it is obvious there is an urgent and strong demand for this information.

I regret that the report could not come out sooner but I was lecturing in Orlando last week at the American Academy of Anti Aging and when I went to return home on Saturday night,..they closed O'Hare airport due to heavy rains - and they cancelled my flight...I was not able to get back to Chicago until Monday.

Read my ten page special report on this vital topic so you can avoid deception and manipulation by the conventional media.

DR MERCOLA SITE IS SWAMPED
created a back up site
http://www.civilrights.org.nz/forum/index.php/topic,422.msg1255.html#msg1255

The WHO increased the threat level to 5 this morning.
I don't know what extra procedures that means.

Foxy

I share your concern. I was guilty of the saying that same cliche "they've had a good run" myself until my own mother became so very frail. We have probably become closer during the past two years given her struggle and determination to live. And I value that very much.

As for whether this latest flu mutation will result in a pandemic, I believe that the scare brought about by SARS and bird flu has resulted in a level of preparation that may just prevent a pandemic.

...The report went on to note,‘Residents claimed that three pediatric cases,all under two years of age, died from the outbreak.

However, health officials stated that there was no direct link between the pediatric deaths and the outbreak;they stated the three fatal cases were“isolated”and“not related”to each other.’

..the aspect of the story which has been largely ignored by major media,they reported,‘Residents believed the outbreak had been caused by contamination from pig breeding farms located in the area.

They believed that the farms,operated by Granjas Carroll,polluted the atmosphere and local water bodies,which in turn led to the disease outbreak...According to residents,the company denied responsibility for the outbreak and attributed the cases to“flu.”

However,a municipal health official stated that preliminary investigations indicated that the disease vector was a type of fly that reproduces in pig waste and that the outbreak was linked to the pig farms.’4

Since the dawn of American‘agribusiness,’a project initiated with funding by the Rockefeller Foundation in the 1950’s to turn farming into a pure profit maximization business,US pig or hog production has been transformed into a highly efficient,mass production industrialized enterprise from birth to slaughter.

Pigs are caged in what are called Factory Farms,industrial concentrations which are run with the efficiency of a Dachau or Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.

The entire operation is vertically integrated from conception to slaughter

Granjas Carroll de Mexico(GCM)happens to be such a Factory Farm concentration facility for hogs...In 2008 they produced almost one million factory hogs, 950,000 according to their own statistics.

GCM is a joint venture operation owned 50% by the world’s largest pig producing industrial company,Smithfield Foods of Virginia.5 The pigs are grown in a tiny rural area of Mexico,a member of the North American Free Trade Agreement,and primarily trucked across the border to supermarkets in the USA,under the Smithfields’family of labels.

Most American consumers have no idea where the meat was raised.

Now the story becomes interesting.

Manure Lagoons and other playing fields...
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=1636

much more revealation at main site
the bankers scam is further revealed and reviled
his contoled media lies to you
figure it out

I do sometimes wish that when serious things came along, people could give their media/government/drug-company conspiracy theories a rest, but no, if anything they ramp them up. If we were in person, I'd tell you to lay off the silliness for just a while, but I guess on the net that's an impossibility.

On the one hand, the WHO has played down the threat, saying that there have only been seven confirmed deaths in Mexico and one confirmed death in the US.

On the other hand, they've upped the pandemic warning from 4 to 5 out of 6. This is mostly due to the fact that there have now been fatalities in two countries. It's important to note that the fatality in the US was a 23 month old toddler.

The virus has killed mostly strong people in their 20s. Apprently this is because our immune system over-reacts and causes damage to our lungs. With strong, young people, this effect is worse as the immune system is stronger.

Which isn't to say other ages are protected, as evidenced by the death of the US toddler.

Still, we're not seeing widespread death and destruction yet. Things aren't yet at the very grim stage, but certainly, they're concerning.

One other thing to note - earlier I said the virus is airborne, as are many news outlets. Technically, this is incorrect, according to the WHO.
It's spread by droplets - the virus can be within droplets which can be sneezed, etc, but it can't simply fly around on its own, so it's not technically airborne.

TRTL. The boy who cried woof. We all know that story, don't we. So if we take your view, as a way to look at all major events around the world, then when the real thing takes place, it will be laughed away and then its too late.
Best to take it seriously like most do, then dismiss it, not before.

I would rather jump to conclusions first, then ask question later.

"To be or not to be" well, its looks like not to be.

This time.

EVO

Evo, my point was about making conspiracy theories at the instant chaos happens.

Sure, afterwards we can dissect which megalomaniacal group manipulated the sheep-like masses with devastating cunning, but really, at the onset of a serious situation, do we really need more grassy-knoll theorising?

"Evo, my point was about making conspiracy theories at the instant chaos happens".

I thought that was the general way rationalizing, which all humans do. Soon as the fear button is pressed, instinct takes over with WHO< WHAT and WHERE, but how to control it, I dont think anyone can, but it does make for intresting reading, but thats about all. All I was saying, better safe than sorry.
The reason that conspiracy theories are so popular is that the world isnt black and white and we the sheep people know they feed us with a degree of bull-dust.

Hypathetically, do you or anyone really trust your governments? I prefer to knock one brick out at a time and conclued my analizing when the foundation is reached. I kinda trust my thoughts more than most.

Here,s a great government piece of philosophy. Off record of corse.

You have to break a few egg's to make an omelette.

EVO

The point everyone is missing is that the reason bird flu and Sars et sec stopped because of active disease control.
The 1918 spanish flu happened because of the lack of protocols and vaccines etc.
The same as Black plague killed est 25% of europes population.
Yet again CONTEXT. The situation is different now.
Two further points.
Be wary not alarmed
If there is to be panic let it be organized!
Perspective folks perspective.Ok I stink at maths! :-\
EVO2 . take either two panadol 1 Vallium and hava a lay down or consume something bubbly and a bar or two of Chocky then lay down.

:-)

egsaminator..Many vaccines/also cause other diseases..besides the one for which they are given...For instance,smallpox vaccine often causes syphilis,paralysis,leprosy,and cancer...

Polio shots,diphtheria toxin-antitoxin,typhoid vaccine,as well as measles,tetanus and all other shots often cause various other stages of disease such as post-vaccinal encephalitis(inflammation of the brain,)paralysis,spinal meningitis,blindness,cancer

(sometimes within two years,)tuberculosis,(two to twenty years after the shot,)arthritis,kidney disease,heart disease(heart failure..sometimes within minutes after the shot and sometimes several hours later.)..Nerve damage and many other serious conditions also follow the injections.

because the body cannot handle such a large amount of deadly poison being injected directly into the bloodstream.The doctors call it a new disease and proceed to suppress the symptoms.

When poison is taken by the mouth, the internal defense system has a chance to quickly eject some of it by vomiting,but when the poisons are shot directly into the body,by-passing all the natural safeguards,..these dangerous poisons circulate immediately throughout the entire body in a matter of seconds and keep on circulating until all the cells are poisoned.

from
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/sf1.html
search
http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=gd&q=1918+spanish+flu+protocols+and+vaccines&hl=en-GB&rls=MEDA,MEDA:2008-36,MEDA:en-GB

reveals more of the same
http://1918-epidemic-flu-spanish.e7xqe2.us/
Swine Flu Expose.CHAPTER 2:THE SPANISH INFLUENZA EPIDEMIC OF 1918 WAS CAUSED BY VACCINATIONS.As has been stated before,all medical..

or maybe the sars deaths, reveal the real and present danger?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=MEDA%2CMEDA%3A2008-36%2CMEDA%3Aen-GB&q=sars+vaccine+deaths&btnG=Search

maybe its the mercury
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=MEDA%2CMEDA%3A2008-36%2CMEDA%3Aen-GB&q=mercury+in+vaccine+deaths&btnG=Search
or maybe its the gmo[geneticlly modified organism's],or other mutagenes in the vacine

[try getting some searches before claiming..<<The point everyone is missing is that the reason bird/flu and Sars et set stopped because of active disease control...The 1918 spanish flu happened because of the lack of protocols and vaccines etc.>>..lol...mate they vectord the kill.

mate your right about the dont panic[but forgot the dont vacinate warning[near all the sars deaths were vacing CAUSED],but media wont tell you that cause the lawyer would sue them

3 regular flue shots cause altheimer's..[google the deaths from that compulsory vacine from girls,..it has a horendous death toll,..girls die within hours of recieving the shot's, die so they dont get clamidia..lol...[its called soft kill][under level 5 they can mandate COMPULSORY vacination..[or compulsory detention,forced evacutations[at level 7 the neo-world order..[un beuro-roc-rats runs govt]

"You have to break a few egg's to make an omelette". UOG has sumed it up quite nicely. Again, do you trust your governments?

EVO

Strange questions to non-qualified people when the medical fraternity doesn't have a clue about swine flu.

It will probably turn out like most of the scares so popular with the hysterics, over in a short time and eventually forgotten, but who knows?

TRTL seems to be crapping himself mainly because it appears to be affecting younger people (those he thinks are in the "prime of their life") e.g. TRTL himself?

Exzamator. Just one more thing, How do you have an organized panic?

EVO;]

I think that influenza is one of nature's ways of keeping us in check. In the current panic, people are forgetting that the various varieties of human influenza kill hundreds of thousands of people annually worldwide - including Australia, where more than 2700 deaths were attributed to "influenza and pneumonia" in 2006 [ http://abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/3303.0Main+Features12006?OpenDocument ].

Zoonotic diseases like swine flu (and HIV etc) are only able to establish themselves in human populations via cultural and/or technological vectors like intensive animal husbandry - it's no accident that many of these diseases emanate from domestic chickens and pigs. One question I haven't seen discussed is whether or not the vector works both ways - i.e. could swine flu infect a pig from a human vector?

It's far too early to tell, but discussions I heard on ABC radio today suggest that the pandemic, if it happens, will impact less on first world societies than in developing countries. However, it's clearly prudent for governments (including Australia's) to ensure that health services are prepared for the possibility that the virus manifests in their populations.

I understand that there haven't been any confirmed cases of swine flu in humans in Australia at this point, but I think it's highly unlikely that will remain the status quo.

EVO2: << The boy who cried woof >>

Priceless.

Well once again the media has managed to stick their noses in without carefully thinking it threw. And the governments are also to blame. I am talking about the possabillity of one being quaranteened if they are suspected of having the swine flu.

Now who today can afford to be laid up in some hospital on the off chance they have this flu. All it is going to do is make people less willing to be tested as they will perhaps loose their jobs, businesses or house due to the financial set back.

Well done you fools, take another bow!

rehctub, thats one side of it. The other side is how many people face that same problem when someone who has an illness (or appears to have it) dec ides that their financial priorities are more important than the risk of passing on their illness to others? Would the maths change if the carrier was liable for the damage to others resulting from a negligent decision not to stay isolated when their was reasonto think that they were carrying a contagous disease?

It's not easy or clear cut either way. I've been into work on days when I probably should have stayed home - the days when it seems missing a day will make a big difference. I've also been in the office when others have made that choice and wished they and their germs had stayed away.

R0bert

i note john howard brought in work con-tracts arround the sars scare, so govt clearly likes the boss to have a worker fill his con-tracted em-ploy-meant

uk govt bying 50 billion face masks [how much that going to cost [a great tender eh>

we get these ongoing beatups so govt can expend ever more on medicine[me-di-sin]read yesterday got spends 23 billion on drug subsidy[a great coorperat welfare eh[people wouldnt be so careless with drugs if they had to pay the real price of drugd

wont get into the drug war[increasing the price of the cheapest drug that relieves pain[for less than a few cents[but yo its addictive[like nicoteen and caffenne and booze,

but its worth going to war for..[worth declaring war on its own citisenry[..worth the subsidy on the other pain relievers[yet causes fewer deaths than,its drug replacement[see sdverse reaction to perscribed drugs][prozac alone has killed 15,000]

in a normal flue season thats how many die from normal flue/..feul for thought..[how many need die for pandemic?, not defined..[just like a terrorist never got defined..

[wonder what real news occured today..[that this scam neatly removes from our thinking]...lol

ok watch my left hand..lol

while my rigfht hand does unspeakable things

http://www.infowars.com/wayne-madsen-on-russia-today-suspicions-over-origin-of-virus/
http://www.infowars.com/infowars-under-sophisticated-denial-of-service-attack/
http://www.infowars.com/scientists-see-this-flu-strain-as-relatively-mild/
from
http://republicbroadcasting.org/32k.pls
DHS Transcript:“Anyone Exhibiting Swine Flu Symptoms Will Be Evaluated Before Proceeding To Their Destruction

Below is an excerpt taken from the transcript of a media briefing conducted by Janet Napolitano the Homeland Security Secretary regarding the swine flu.According to the transcript,Napolitano stated that travelers exhibiting swine flu symptoms would be taken to an isolation room to be evaluated by a public health official before proceeding to their destruction.

We’re also actively monitoring travelers at our land, sea, and air ports...We’re watching them for signs of illness,..and we have appropriate protocol..lol..in place to deal with..?..those who areceemed]sick.Precautions are being taken to protect travelers and border personnel.Anyone exhibiting symptoms is being referred to an isolation room where they can be evaluated by a public health official before proceeding to their destruction.

Typo? Fruedian slip?
We’ll let you be the judge of this one until audio or video is available of the media briefing.
..but what are the odds that such a ridiculous mistake would be made?

http://www.roguegovernment.com/DHS_Transcript%3A_%22Anyone_Exhibiting_Swine_Flu_Symptoms_Will_Be_Evaluated_Before_Proceeding_To_Their_Destruction/15448/0/17/17/Y/M.html
http://www.dhs.gov/ynews/releases/pr_1241056994692.shtm

http://www.infowars.com/on-the-flu-bug-and-those-disappearing-microbiologists/
http://www.infowars.com/scientist-predicted-swine-flu-in-2004/
http://www.infowars.com/government-template-for-mass-vaccination/

far worse than reported?
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=1652
http://www.infowars.com/biden-stay-off-subways-during-swine-flu-panic/
needs to be kept secure
[after all were selling our futures to buy their drugs]
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=1673
northcom takes over if swine declared
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=1655
hate crime unconxtitutional
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=1663
1976 swine propaganda
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=1560
ron paul vidio proper perspective
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=1618
http://www.infowars.com/us-economy-gdp-shrinks-in-worst-slump-in-50-years/
http://www.infowars.com/ron-paul-talks-with-alan-colmes-on-secession-piracy-torture-memos-and-more/
http://www.infowars.com/top-senate-democrat-bankers-own-the-us-congress/
http://www.infowars.com/thought-police-muscle-up-in-britain/
http://www.infowars.com/cap-and-trade-3900-per-family-per-year/
http://www.infowars.com/chairman-of-gore-climate-hearing-strikes-gavel-cuts-off-all-dissent/
http://www.infowars.com/aipac-pushing-for-new-iran-sanctions-bill/
http://www.infowars.com/texas-doctor-claims-swine-flu-cases-far-worse-than-reported/

I'm waiting for a Mike Munroe special report before I start wearing my mask.

'ok watch my left hand..lol

while my rigfht hand does unspeakable things'

Is it just me, or did anyone else think this was about masturbation?

Up to phase 5 now... Getting exciting huh. I wonder what terrorism phase we're in now. I'll just go check my fridge magnet...

Administration Aide Suspected of Contracting Swine Flu

By Scott Wilson, Debbi Wilgoren and Ashley Halsey III
Washington Post Staff Writers
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/30/AR2009043001836.html?hpid=topnews

An Energy Department employee who was part of the advance team for President Obama's recent trip to Mexico is suspected of having contracted the swine flu virus and transmitting it to his family,the White House said today.

The man is on the security staff of Energy Secretary Steven Chu,..

Neither the president nor Chu experienced any symptoms of the virus, Gibbs said,and White House doctors do not think Obama should be tested.

The staffer worked a dinner Obama attended in Mexico City,Gibbs said.After the White House learned of his exposure to the virus late last night,..Gibbs said, the man "was asked specifically if he ever came within six feet of the president" during the dinner.

"The answer,"Gibbs told reporters,"was..'no.'

then another computer virus..lol
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/science_technology/warning+over+swine+flu+spam+emails/3117607

is the faux cure worse than the fear?

http://www.smh.com.au/world/science/tamiflu-linked-to-abnormal-behaviour-20090420-ac3y.html

Tamiflu was useless against the avian flu and many other flus.
Contrary to the CDC, their recommendation was not to use Tamiflu.

why?..dangerous in-GREED-iants?
http://www.infowars.net/articles/april2009/300409Baxter.htm
the full scale of medical vacination blunders
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/oct/22/foodanddrink
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/mexican-ambassador-flus-reach-exaggerated-2009-04-30.html
Tamiflu was useless against the avian flu and many other flue's.
Contrary to the CDC,their recommendation was not to use Tamiflu.
http://www.healthnewsreview.org/review/review.php?rid=27
http://www.wanttoknow.info/health/swine_flu_cdc_recommendations
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/GE0710/S00127.htm
who's cleaning up?
http://www.smartmoney.com/Investing/Stocks/7-Stocks-Impacted-by-Swine-Flu/AID=/200904300230/NEWS15/904300350

panic is great for funny buisness
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?
http://americansjourney.blogspot.com/2009/04/americans-has-your-bank-robbed-you.html
http://theorstrahyun.blogspot.com/2009/05/to-stockpile-or-not-to-stockpile-run-on.html
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/42167

other issues
http://tshtf.blogspot.com/
http://www.smartmoney.com/breaking-news/on/?story=ON-20090429-000954-1853
hard to believe in a time when we're facing a banking crisis that many of the banks created -- are still the most powerful lobby on Capitol Hill...And they frankly own the place
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/30/ownership/index.html
more from
http://whatreallyhappened.com/

http://www.thedailypage.com/isthmus/article.php?article=25758
http://uk.reuters.com/article/reutersComService_2_MOLT/idUKTRE53Q0MI20090427
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/world/AP/story/1025455.html
http://sb4af.wordpress.com/2009/04/28/breaking-news-abraham-foxman-pushed-uc-santa-barbara-to-investigate-professor/
university officials investigate Robinson for introducing materials critical of Israeli state policies in a course on globalization in January...Webmaster's Commentary:
Isn't it weird that here in the United States the First Amendment means you can criticize the US Government in college classes but not Israel?
http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-sci-swine-reality30-2009apr30,0,3606923.story
anyhow the flue is rather mild[but its a great redherring to hide other stuff]
http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=tallahassee&sParam=34915052.story
http://atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KE01Df01.html
http://www.imemc.org/article/60160
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8026794.stm
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2009/04/30/diaspora-palestinians-commemorate-the-nakba/
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2009/04/30/todays-toons-the-greatest-scourges-facing-humanity/

TRTL, here at the hospital where I work, we get new updates on what to do with a possible presentation on a daily basis. But generally speaking there is no panic. It's treated like any other potentially virulent contagious disease.

As long as we are dilligent. There are a whole host of contagious diseases that can kill.

Especially with the previous possible epidemics of SARS and Bird Flu, we've become very streamlined in quickly dealing to contain.

In Australia, we unfortunately have the added issue of going towards winter. The Northern hemisphere is moving towards warmer weather, so we are at more risk.

As simple as it sounds, washing hands and covering the mouths when coughing or sneezing is actually very effective. For the 'ordinary' flu as well, which kills quite a number of people every year with as little raising of our fear levels as does our national road toll.

CJ, I've heard that this 'swine' flu orginated from the pig family and that it can work both ways, we can infect each other. Whether that is true I don't know, but as I only come in contact with human pigs, not the animal variety, I haven't really investigated the veracity of that.

Evo
Organizing a panic? That's the point you can't so don't panic just be warry. That was one of my dad's sayings every time every one got excited and becan to lose the plot. The saying used to make people stop take a breath then proceed sensibly. :-)

CJ, I've heard that this 'swine' flu orginated from the pig family
Aparently pigs and humans have similar internal organs and in fact, a pig can catch a common cold.

I think this is why it is such a concern.

And robert, i'm not reffering to a day or two, I heard it is more like two to three weeks.

Danmed if you do, danmed if you don't I supose!

UOG, you might believe that God gave you the ability to google, but
rest assured that the rest of us can do much the same, without
divine intervention.

I would be amazed if posters read all your links, but no doubt it
makes you feel better, to think that god gave you that ability.
Life revolves about people kidding themselves about themselves,
after all.

Interesting, but I asked the chemist if I could buy a pack of
Relenza, to keep in my cupboard in case the need arose. "Ah, you
need a doctors script" I was told.

But for the stuff to be effective, you need to take it within 48
hours of symptoms setting in. Given that in the country here,
there is no hope in hell of getting a doctors appointment in
48 hours, you would have no chance with a flue epidemic around.

Why should those of use who would like to spend our $ to buy a course
of Relenza, not be able to buy one?

All this is fine for city folk, not so fine for country folk.

OH GABBY your so funny[i spend 16 hours a day finding stuff for you]and the only thanks you can raise is to insult our god[he dont concern over the mere affairs of men bro[get used to it]

mate i wish god would do the info for you..[and me]..i wouldnt have had to waste all day finding out where the swine that made the flue gets his funding

of course now you just need to google to find out
here is the link
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=8859#140446

enjoy knowing

ps i dont recomend taking any drugs..[that you cant grow in your own garden]and dont trust any pill merchants..had you read my posts you would know how i informed you of their 'side affects''

but hey you do as you do bro..and i do as i do, just know jesus loves you and so does god..[i dont have to]..yet strangly find your in your face perversly humorous.

your timming is funny as well, but at the time i couldnt post the post here [so posted it here...lol..now]
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=8859#140446

*i wouldnt have had to waste all day finding out where the swine that made the flue gets his funding*

Err, then just perhaps, viruses mutate occasionaly, without any
conspiracy theories. We know it is common in nature.

But such a simple explanation would take away your purpose and
belief, seemingly your fun, so we had better not let reality
interfere with a good story after all!

Hehe...

Evo
Organizing a panic? That's the point you can't so don't panic just be weary. That was one of my dad's sayings every time every one got excited and began to lose the plot. The saying used to make people stop take a breath then proceed sensibly. :-)
Posted by examinator, Friday, 1 May 2009 5:07:43 PM

exzamoo. And people say your not funny. ;) Loosing the plot. I guess your dad was warning you of things to come. lol

EVO

Note - Dr. Len Horowitz has been a guest on this program many times. His most recent appearance on 10-1-98 is available in the Archives.


BOSTON -- Shocking government documents, reprinted in a new book by a leading public health authority, reveal that the AIDS and Ebola viruses did not likely originate from African monkeys left alone in the wild. Instead, Dr. Leonard Horowitz, a Harvard graduate, and independent investigator, concludes that the viruses, that now threaten humanity's survival, most likely evolved from early cancer virus experiments in which top military-pharmaceutical scientists infected monkeys with viral genes from other animals. Such contaminated monkeys were then used to develop viral vaccines tested on humans simultaneously in New York City and Central Africa. The first researcher to meticulously document this "man-made theory" on AIDS's origin, Dr. Horowitz stunned a large audience at the XI International Conference on AIDS in July, when he presented a scientific summary report of his investigation.

As documented in Dr. Horowitz's book, "Emerging Viruses: AIDS & Ebola -- Nature, Accident or Intentional?" (Tetrahedron, Inc., 1996; $29.95), during the 1960s, National Cancer Institute(NCI) researchers, working in collaboration with military scientists, investigated and developed viruses as potential cancer triggers. Using monkeys and other animals, the investigators induced an array of illnesses now commonly linked to AIDS including leukemia, lymphoma, sarcoma, immune system suppression, and general wasting. Documented records show the leukemia/sarcoma/lymphoma cancer complex, never seen in humans prior to 1978, had been the primary focus of a highly funded, yet largely secret, "Special Virus Cancer Program." By analyzing formerly classified documents, and NCI/government contracts showing how, when, where, and why such viruses were made, Dr. Horowitz's 563 page treatise concludes that the AIDS virus likely broke out as a result of contaminated polio and hepatitis B vaccine experiments. Those implicated include top AIDS researchers, biological weapons contractors, and institutions who, the published documents show, developed and tested such immune-system-ravaging agents for the NCI and Department of Defense (DOD) during the late 1960s.



EVO

Monkeys, contaminated with assorted immune-system-destroying cancer viruses, were used to develop both polio and hepatitis vaccines. The hepatitis vaccine was administered virtually simultaneously to special populations in New York City, and Central Africa during the early 1970s. The recipients were people who had been previously exposed to polio vaccine delivered monkey viruses. This, Dr. Horowitz said, might best explain the sudden appearance of new virus forms an

Dr. Horowitz's text also presents stunning admissions by top monkey virus experts and vaccine analysts including the world's leading vaccine developer, Dr. Maurice Hilleman, of Merck, Sharp and Dohme. The Merck pharmaceutical company was the government's principle military vaccine producer during most of the cold war when their president, George W. Merck, directed America's biological weapons industry. Hilleman, during a taped interview on file at the National Library of Medicine, acknowledged his role in importing contaminated green monkeys, from facilities in Central Africa, into the United States for research and vaccine production. "I brought (the) African greens in," Hilleman said during a 1986 interview originally recorded, but never aired, by WGBH, Boston's famed public television station. "I didn't know we were importing AIDS virus at the time."

The contaminated monkeys apparently came from another documented biological weapons contractor -- Litton Bionetics, Dr. Horowitz explained. "Litton was the chief NCI contractor for primate supplies and maintained laboratory operations and monkey colonies in Uganda and Maryland."

Outraged AIDS activists, scientists, and public interest groups nationwide are calling for an independent congressional investigation into Dr. Horowitz's published facts. Several authorities are now urging analyses of suspected vaccine lots, believed to be held by the FDA, including Dr. W. John Martin, former director of the Viral Oncology Branch of the FDA's Bureau of Biologics, the government's principal agency in charge of testing human vaccines. Dr. Martin, who wrote the foreword to

Dr. Horowitz's book, stated "the issue of possible simian virus contamination of certain live viral vaccines has been suppressed since 1972... This basic flaw in the regulatory process must be addressed."


EVO

*that now threaten humanity's survival, most likely evolved from early cancer virus experiments in which top military-pharmaceutical scientists infected monkeys with viral genes from other animals.*

I'm sure it was the movie called "28 Days" that started with this script. It mutated, creating Zombies.

Shouldn't all countries be taking a real look at the ways we do farm to prevent situations like this latest outbreak? Does Australia effectively police it's own "live food industry". I seem to lack the adequate term for this.

http://www.infowars.com/who-says-existing-vaccine-little-use-against-new-flu/
Reuters|The World Health Organization said on Friday that tests had shown the current seasonal vaccine against flu would have little effect against the new H1N1 strain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPer2c9jSck&feature=player_embedded

http://www.infowars.com/japanese-researchers-suggest-putting-lithium-in-drinking-water/
BBC..Research on data collected from the 1980s found a significantly lower rate of suicide in areas with relatively high lithium levels.[its a treament for bi-polar,puts conspiricy theorists to sleep]

http://www.infowars.com/scientists-see-this-flu-strain-as-relatively-mild/

LA Times..Genetic data indicate this outbreak won’t be as deadly as that of 1918,or even the average winter.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090501/ap_on_he_me/med_swine_flu_virus
Science & technology archive

http://www.infowars.com/company-warned-officials-of-flu-18-days-before-alert-was-issued/
McClatchy Newspapers..biosurveillance firm raised the first warning about a possible outbreak of swine flu in Mexico more than two weeks before the World Health Organization offered its initial alert about a public health emergency of international concern.
http://www.breadwithcircus.com/#050109

http://www.infowars.com/feds-plan-vaccines-for-all-americans-by-fall/
Fox News..“We think 600 million doses is achievable in a six-month time frame”from that fall start,Health and Human Services Assistant Secretary Craig Vanderwagen said.
http://angrywhitekid.blogs.com/weblog/2009/03/plan-mexico-and-the-politics-of-fear.html


http://www.infowars.com/us-to-drop-spy-case-against-pro-israel-lobbyists/
http://jnoubiyeh.blogspot.com/2009/04/slowly-but-surely-we-are-winning-one_30.html
New York Times|The Obama Justice Department moved Friday to drop all charges against two former pro-Israel lobbyists who had been charged under the Espionage Act with improperly disseminating sensitive information.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/kwiatkowski/kwiatkowski91.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/01/iraq-britain-inquiry

http://www.infowars.com/top-senate-democrat-bankers-own-the-us-congress/

Glenn Greenwald..“And the banks — hard to believe in a time when we’re facing a banking crisis that many of the banks created — are still the most powerful lobby on Capitol Hill.And they frankly own the place.”
http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/president-obama-nationalize-the-fed-and-create-our-own-money/
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/04/obama-endorses-government-mandated.html..govt mandated murder of the elderly..lol..
http://www.infowars.com/killer-bird-flu-in-the-series-millennium/

from
http://www.infowars.com/

Jewely.

25 May 2000 (Australia) was the release date and just for the record, The government lets Hollywood make movies on such matters just to make sure the truth is discredited.

"I'm sure it was the movie called "28 Days" that started with this script. It mutated, creating Zombies" Between 1960 to 1972 is when the incident took place. And your point is what?

Dr. Horowitz's book, stated "the issue of possible simian virus contamination of certain live viral vaccines has been suppressed since 1972... This basic flaw in the regulatory process must be addressed."

Jewely. Its funny most movies inspires our minds, but the thought have to of come from somewhere. But this is no story of fiction.

Just a thought.

EVO

Shouldn't all countries be taking a real look at the ways we do farm to prevent situations like this latest outbreak

In most cases aussie farmers are very hard working people who don't care for the old '9-5' routine.

Unfortunately, farm prices are set by comsumers who in most cases want more, for less, all the time. In fact, they will abondon locally produced food if the price is not right and find an alternative and give little regard as to whether it is imported or not, despite what you may think or have heard.

It is only when ACA, or similar programs run a story on what we are actually eating, or more so, where it comes from e.g. imported seafood, that consumers stand back and take notice, otherwise it is the good old wallet/purse that drives there habbits and they will often go to any length to save money, even if it means cutting our own producers out.

If you don't beleive me, check out how much of our pork products are imported. Don't forget to include ham and bacon hey!

Hey Evo:
"25 May 2000 (Australia) was the release date and just for the record, The government lets Hollywood make movies on such matters just to make sure the truth is discredited."

You went and looked up the release date? I like you already. When I was a bit younger and first saw WWF it was always the Russians that were the bad guys then after awhile it was the Arabs, I havn't seen it in years now so I'm not sure who "they" now want the low brows to hate. Maybe not to discredit though, perhaps it is to make us a little more immune to the possiblity - hence avoiding organised panic.

" Between 1960 to 1972 is when the incident took place. And your point is what?"

Cool movie..?

"Jewely. Its funny most movies inspires our minds, but the thought have to of come from somewhere. But this is no story of fiction."

28 days actually made me slightly uneasy but there ya go. There was a whole run of movies about outbreaks. I think one was called "outbreak".

I haven't kept up to date with stats or breaking news on the flu, mostly because, as has been mentioned, all the information is a tad conflicting. But at which point do people start looting and heading for the hills?

Hey Rehctub (how do I pronouce that?)

"In fact, they will abondon locally produced food if the price is not right and find an alternative and give little regard as to whether it is imported or not, despite what you may think or have heard."

Then why a couple of years ago did bananas cost so much? Why protect some farming and not others? Not that I am suggesting a banana plant (palm?) is too upset by being placed close to the next banana palm (plant?).

But if I do grasp what you are saying... it is defending the farmers right to pack in live stock so that they can compete with imported goods?

"If you don't beleive me, check out how much of our pork products are imported. Don't forget to include ham and bacon hey!"

I believe you, unless this is against some political forum rule.

Jewely:"I believe you"

Someone call 000, rehctub's going to need the re-sus cart...

Jewely.

"But at which point do people start looting and heading for the hills?"

Gee,z I hope never, and jumping to conclusions from the media and such, just makes the matters worse. I also think movies can give us a little insight into the future which can assist us.

Just for the record, I would ban most food imports, not just for our farmers sake, from which our government neglects on a shocking level, but most importantly, to keep the micro world from others countries well OUT. But what people don't understand is what you pay for is what you get, and over seas food growing practices are hardly exseptable.

EVO

Then why a couple of years ago did bananas cost so much?
Quite simple. Almost the entire northern crop was wiped out and, bananas are such a staple food, the high prices actually got a mention in the CPI at the time. Importing bananas is just to risky.

I don't like the fact that we prop up our farmers as they often whinge if it rains then whinge if it doesn't. I just hate to see people taking cheap shots at our farmers when they are under presure to compete with the un-regulated farmers from OS.

EVO I agree with you, in fact, I think globalisation is what is going to be the eventual killer of our world. In just a mere 30 odd hours one can travel from one side of the globe to the other.

Another issue that is overlooked is the age of our country. We are just 200 odd years old while some of our imports come from counties that are thousands of years old. Many diseises have been there for centuries.

Someone call 000, rehctub's going to need the re-sus cart...

Oh dear, there's always one, isn't there!

Now getting back to Aussie pork.
Our pigs are grown and processed under strick conditions, and that's a fact. We have some of the highest levels of compliance in the world when it comes to meat production. This is something you should be proud of and offer your consumer support to.

I couldn't agree more about potentially infected imports. Australia's prosperity is based in large part on our disease-free status, which we've worked hard to achieve. Throwing it away is like throwing away capital and that's always a dumb idea.

The truth is that I don't know the origin of the pork I consume. I can't make a conscious decision to support Australian producers, because I don't know which is their product and which is imported.

EVO I agree with you, in fact, I think globalisation is what is going to be the eventual killer of our world. In just a mere 30 odd hours one can travel from one side of the globe to the other.

Another issue that is overlooked is the age of our country. We are just 200 odd years old while some of our imports come from countries that are thousands of years old. Many diseases have been there for centuries.

REHCTUB. Your not wrong, and I agree that Australia should be more self-sufficient and rely more on commonsense than the hunt for greed.
( and just to add) its nice to see good threads like the one,s that have started elsewhere. For me, silences is agreement. On another point, soil toxicities are another main concern for me when importing produce, I think most people know the alarming statistics that are available to most consumers. The aircraft industry and shipping in order of pathogens, is an easy highway and the most hardest to monitor.
I hope they learn this quickly. But again, greed wins the day.
Blogging is one way of communication but not always the best. It's a hostile environment on the Internet plains and lions with there salivating mouth viruses can contaminate the entire pride, and should be quarantined as quickly as possible.
Have a nice Sunday.

EVO

rehctub you and I often disagree but on this issue I wholeheartedley support your comments.

One of the biggest concerns with globalisation and FT is that we really lose control of the quality and integrity of our food chain. As imperfect as it might be here, we don't often know what we are getting in from OS.

Different labelling laws (GMOs, additives), the use of certain pesticides, disease control, environmental vandalism, poor industrial relations/OH&S and production techniques are all taken out of our hands. No manner of inspections on OS factories or productions can take the place of strong internal guidelines in countries where governance is stronger.

In China many of the factories inspected are what can only be politely called 'front' operations. The shadow factories that exist behind the scenes do not always comply with the standards expected by the importing country. The melamine incident in China is a good example of potential risks for consumers.

Evo:"Geez, I hope never, and jumping to conclusions from the media and such, just makes the matters worse. I also think movies can give us a little insight into the future which can assist us."

Or lead some to jump to conclusions based on how a film, with similar events, turned out. I was kind of looking foreward to barricading the house and buying a gun and you're spoiling it for me Evo.

"Just for the record, I would ban most food imports, not just for our farmers sake, from which our government neglects on a shocking level, but most importantly, to keep the micro world from others countries well OUT. But what people don't understand is what you pay for is what you get, and over seas food growing practices are hardly exseptable."

Wouldn't that upset the farmers? Not banning imports but the backlash of other countries in turn not accepting their product? What makes Australian practises better than other countries?

To keep the micro world out we'd have to cease all travel. Boats from overseas (watching national Geographic the other day) bring amazing amounts of foriegn creatures to our shores. Maybe countries should only have "buddy" countries, similar in practises with packaging etc - Oz would pair up with NZ?

Still wouldn't have got us any bananas. No I don't know why I have the banana thing stuck in my head. I suspect if it had been a hurricane vs wheat disaster the gov. would have immediately imported flour.

""Then why a couple of years ago did bananas cost so much?""
"Quite simple. Almost the entire northern crop was wiped out and, bananas are such a staple food, the high prices actually got a mention in the CPI at the time. Importing bananas is just to risky."

NZ imports bananas, arn't they concerned about something - banana flu? I think NZ has even been populated for less time than Oz..? It was a shame that your average Australian couldn't afford this "staple" at the time.

Actually back to how long a country has been around, I'll need the relevance explained to me. Was it meant as a land mass, populated by humans, bird migration, when McDonalds arrive?

"I don't like the fact that we prop up our farmers as they often whinge if it rains then whinge if it doesn't. I just hate to see people taking cheap shots at our farmers when they are under presure to compete with the un-regulated farmers from OS."

Probably because droughts and floods bum them out big time aye. Who took a cheap shot? Okay so please explain (you'll get a lot of this, I know nothing really about how the world works) why they are required to compete with overseas markets.

The 'nana farmers weren't when their crops failed for whatever reason.

"We have some of the highest levels of compliance in the world when it comes to meat production. This is something you should be proud of and offer your consumer support to."

Believing you is one thing but I cannot commit an emotion like "being proud" let alone open my wallet on just anyones say so. Are you crossing your heart, hoping to die and telling me beyond any shred of doubt that in the whole of Australia I will not find dodgy farmers working for corporations or exporters cramming in the bacon to make a buck? Or beef, or chicken, or mutton for that matter.

Who polices this and who pays them?

Yes Jewely, point taken. I guess its a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't, and the game of russian rulet, i guess we,ll just have to play. Everything that this land has protected for the last 100 million years will just be riddled with all sorts of the nastiest creatures like the tasmanian starfish etc its just a "put up with the by-product" so to speak. Can you see where it goes from there? Ok. we just keep on gambling.

EV

NZ imports bananas, Yes, but do they grow them to a large scale. I have no idea but I know the reason why we don't import bananas is due mainly to the risk of disiese.

Actually back to how long a country has been around, Sorry, I should have said post AD.

Probably because droughts and floods bum them out big time aye

Yes you are very right. But, what about the many other businesses that rely on farmers for thier very existance. Why don't they get relief! This is my point here!

why they are required to compete with overseas markets.
Because as a nation we massively over produce.

Finnaly, of cause I can't guarantee everyone will do the right thing. But I can almost guarantee we don't grow our livestock, wash our cloths, urinate and empty our sewage, garbage, educate our kids and process our food all within the confines of our own back yard. Oh, did I mention letting the dogs in to do the cleaning up once we're finnished!

Antiseptic, I have been told that we do not allow pork bone to be imported.

I am not sure of this, & would love a definitive answer on it. However, I only buy pork with the bone in, for that reason.

All pork imported into Australia must be sold cooked and cannot contain any bone.

All fresh pork sold in Australia is from Australian pigs.

Australian pigs are free of Swine Flu.

Only buy ham on the bone, fresh pork or check the country of origin on the label of smallgoods including bacon.

Lets not forget though that the majority of it, no matter what country it comes from, is factory farmed. Intensive agriculture is most likely the cause for this type of virus.

No, no, no PF, its those friggin swines that are the problem!

Its called swine flue for good reasons!

Best that people just play it safe, forget the pork and eat
more tasty yummy,free range lamb. After all, I have a whole lot of them,
nearly ready for market :)

Over the past few days the threat of this virus has seemed less significant, I'll grant you.
I'd also point out that my projections weren't in the catastrophic millions, rather in the tens of thousands, which is on a par with the normal flu. So I wouldn't say I've been scaremongering at all, merely posting a running commentary which has changed along with the bulletins.

The potential for disruption does remain huge - the WHO has stated it takes 4 - 6 months to get a vaccine ready for the public. In the meantime, containment appears to be very difficult, judging by the rapid spread.

Fortunately it seems that whilst the virus is highly contagious, the mortality rate is well below what was feared. Still, mutations are eminently possible, but our fears were never realised with SARS or the bird flu (which had a much higher mortality rate).

It seems a bit stupid to be worrying about eating meat in the context of a flu outbreak. Frankly, given the way we transport and consume meat, even if it was transmissible this way (and I don't think it is) when compared to catching it from a person, the odds seem laughable.

Classic Leigh. I'm amused that you deem it worthy to speculate on what kind of person I am rather than discuss issues - focus man, focus.
The topic is H1N1 flu - got it? (If you think I'm the young, dashing healthy type that's at risk, then to that I say, great).

"Its called swine flue for good reasons!"

I suppose you are right Yabby. Afterall, the virus is part human and part pig, not unlike some two legged swine i know :)

Lamb substitute for pork Huh! show me a lamb roast with crackling, or baaacon and then you might have something to argue with.

Well PF, as you know, I don't often quote religious books lol, buuut,
we do have the old holy books claiming that pigs carry diseases and
should not be eaten. Whom am I to argue with the powers above?

Crackling and bacon? I'll let all that fat go to your hips, not
mine :)

"Yes Jewely, point taken. I guess its a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't, and the game of russian rulet, i guess we,ll just have to play. Everything that this land has protected for the last 100 million years will just be riddled with all sorts of the nastiest creatures like the tasmanian starfish etc its just a "put up with the by-product" so to speak. Can you see where it goes from there? Ok. we just keep on gambling."

Now Evo, this cynical thinking will do no good. Without a crystal ball we cannot look back (or does some other rock look back?) and know if the earth would have trucked along quite nicely without us or if perhaps we have already unwittingly saved life on earth with our presence.

Of course I guess this is where Russian Rulet does enter the picture.
What we do now matters, I'm not sure humans really deep down do believe we matter enough to make a difference.

But I wonder off topic. Surely a Swine Flu cannot be discussed without really talking about how we treat our animals.

This is Australia, I believe it's rather large. Why is there anything other than happy animals living as nature intended right up until the point they are served with a variety of sauces?

Something amusing I found on my wonderings, well amusing until a few brain cells start firing off.

http://www.themeatrix.com/

""Probably because droughts and floods bum them out big time aye""
"Yes you are very right. But, what about the many other businesses that rely on farmers for thier very existance. Why don't they get relief! This is my point here!"

Isn't relief passed on? I mean if a farmer gets "relief" don't they in turn pay for their goods and services?

"Because as a nation we massively over produce."

Isn't this how a country makes money?

"Finally, of course I can't guarantee everyone will do the right thing. But I can almost guarantee we don't grow our livestock, wash our cloths, urinate and empty our sewage, garbage, educate our kids and process our food all within the confines of our own back yard."

My neighbours do. Sorry slipped out.

"Oh, did I mention letting the dogs in to do the cleaning up once we're finnished!"

Which reminds me, I have a sick dog, no don't worry he'll be okay but this lead me to go places I normally do not venture and got some advice by a really nice person and I mentioned this site and was told to say this exactly:

Break a leg from Gertrude Yabby
Hello to our Prime Minister in waiting

if you cant see how media is beating up on the big scare[even going so far as having a ghoul flash into our faces a la the optus add abouve this very post..lol..and still you cant see they are playing with you all]

the issue is a non issue,
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=1699
in fact so much of a non issue one needs wonder what they dont want us talking about that we do talk about swine flue, thats not decendant from swine because its a manufactured flue[far milder than the normal flue],

not vectored via swine, despite the pathetic attempts to beat it up by the past its glory 60 minute crew, who hang the disease off a mex-kid[still living kid]..[being less than one 5 th swine], the h1n1 gene covers many other harmless flues,less that 7 confirmed deaths and one in usa.. the topic is so pathetic,..all the blogger brigade can find to blog is meatstuff

go ahead and ignore the cure was released a full two weeks prior to the first claimed'victim'.
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=8859#140446
...this didnt stop the pathetic 60 minute reporting spruiking up a vacine..,they can inject it into all of you in 6 mths..

i recomend you to take it..[its the only way to catch it]..going by the usual need to get some poor preople to test these things,[re polio vacine creating aids via africa..it will be in time revealed it was tested in mexico..

but keep on beating up with the distractions,..soon it will be compulsory to take it,..just like the spainish flue,..learn your histry

[and im boycotting lamb,its the meat that creates sheeple]baaa baaa

Antiseptic, I have been told that we do not allow pork bone to be imported.
All pork meat imports are boneless. This is also the reason why high quality 'spare ribs' 'american style' are so expensive now becasue less local pork is bonned

Isn't relief passed on? I mean if a farmer gets "relief" don't they in turn pay for their goods and services?

Yes, you are correct, however I am more reffering to the truck driver who relies on the farmers crops for freight, or the fruiterer, who relies on the farmers crops for re-sale, or of cause, the butcher who relies on meat from farmers to re-sell. None of these businesses get relief!

Because as a nation we massively over produce."

Isn't this how a country makes money?
Wasn't my argument, I was meerly making a point.

My neighbours do. Sorry slipped out.

Yes, but do they then sell to the re-sellers or exporters, or do they provide for them selves.

The engine that is driving the re-emergence of many of the diseases is ecological change that brings humans into contact with pathogens.

The development of antibiotic resistance in any pathogen is the result of medical and agricultural practices. The indiscriminate and inappropriate use of antibiotics in medicine has resulted in hospitals that are the source of multi-drug resistant strains of bacteria that infect a large number of patients.

Agricultural use in which animal feed is supplemented with sub-therapeutic doses of antibiotics has risen dramatically
in the last half century. In 1954, 500,000 pounds of antibiotics were produced in the United States; today, over 40,000,000 pounds are produced annually.

Recently, much attention has focused on the detrimental effects of industrialization on the international environment, including water, land, and atmosphere.

Massive industrial production of commodities has caused pollution. Increasingly there is concern over the health implications of contaminated water supplies, over-use of pesticides in commercialized agriculture, atmospheric chemicals and the future effects of a depleted ozone layer on human health and food production.

At no other time in human history have the changes in the environment been more rapid or so extreme. Increasing incidence of cancer among young people and the increase in respiratory disease has been implicated in these environmental changes.

The scale has changed.The rates of emerging disease and their impact can now affect large segments of the world population at an ever increasing rate, and we need to be increasingly aware of the implications for today s human populations around the globe.("National Museum of Natural History Bulletin for Teachers Vol. 18 No. 3, Fall 1996")

http://ucsusa.wsm.ga3.org/food_and_environment/antibiotics_and_food/hogging-it-estimates-of-antimicrobial-abuse-in-livestock.html

It appears that we have learnt nothing from yesteryear.

"Yes, you are correct, however I am more reffering to the truck driver who relies on the farmers crops for freight, or the fruiterer, who relies on the farmers crops for re-sale, or of cause, the butcher who relies on meat from farmers to re-sell. None of these businesses get relief!"

I never considered the other businesses attached to farming. But I also don't really understand the "relief" concept. I am guessing this relief is given to the farmers to keep them on their land and maintain an existance without profit..?

Other industries are a business and also get no profit when times are hard, why should they? So the governement says to a truck driver, sorry no work this season, go home, park the truck, go on the dole and maintain your existance until times are better.

Is this what happens? Is it unfair?

""Isn't this how a country makes money?""
"Wasn't my argument, I was merely making a point."

The point was that we over produce... can a country not do this? Or is this about greed instead of need. Cramming in animals for profit, if you sit and really think about it as a concept instead of a reality is bizzare.

Stay with me for a sec... if all animal products were the same price it would immediatly become an ethical question as to whether we bought factory anything or free range anything. What would be your preferred choice of product?

""My neighbours do. Sorry slipped out.""
"Yes, but do they then sell to the re-sellers or exporters, or do they provide for them selves."

I'm not asking them that!

Ylewej.

&#928;&#961;&#969;&#964;&#945;&#947;&#972;&#961;&#945;&#962;:"At no other time in human history have the changes in the environment been more rapid or so extreme. Increasing incidence of cancer among young people and the increase in respiratory disease has been implicated in these environmental changes."

Okay, hang on because I have it in my head and I'm going to try really hard to explain this thought...

People used to live in little villages or roam, they died of things like toothache gone bad or a boil gone wrong. Later people were covered in pockmarks and a dose of flu would have halved populations overnight in towns.

These "new" conditions may have always been there but only the latest medical advances have been able to identify them and only population growth bought there notice.

Things don't seem so bad now for humans. Without another planet earth to observe we are unable to be able to make the comparison to see if we are doing okay or not.

So the only comparison is recent history and are we doing better than humans 150 years ago

I think it's the animals' revenge. And how richly deserved!

Other industries are a business and also get no profit when times are hard, why should they? So the governement says to a truck driver, sorry no work this season, go home, park the truck, go on the dole and maintain your existance until times are better.

Well at the moment if you loose yor business, or your job and you have 'assetts' then you will not get the dole straight away.

Now most businesses that close have been trading at a loss until such time as all their reserves have been exhausted, then they shut.

All I am saying is that it appears that the farmers get releif when it dos'nt rain and releife when it rains to much.

Another classic was the pilots strike in the 90's.

The airline got support but the tourisum indudtry didn't.

As for disieses I still say that globalisation is our biggest problem. The world has become to small and to accesable to many.

Not as small as in the pig world rehctub. Thousands upon thousands of pigs crammed into sheds. No sunlight no natural stimulation. Forced to live with their own excrement. Artificial heat, lighting, reproduction, growth stimulants, hormones and the overuse of antibiotics and other drugs. Add in the frightening amount of toxic effluent they produce along with the threat it presents to air and water quality, and we have a giant, very efficient disease incubator.

How long can we bury our heads in the sand?

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS
this swine flue DONT COME FROM PIGS[go ahead and let the govt subversives make their distractions, all they like, if your pasivly taking your info from the media your being decieved

search out the links posted, they prove cdc supplied the virus to novisvac/baxter in 2004, who announced the vacine, near the same time the beta test was announced in mexico[the test has revealed the recombination od swine, bird and human flues arnt as virile as thye swine fluye[1918] it was based on

the 1918 flue was vectored by the vacine[just as the next outbreak will be vectord by the neo[new] novis/baxter vacine[that will be made compulsory the next time the media plays it bankers ordered spin game[predicted to be about june]

after you all get the shots it will be revealed [just like 1918...just like sars..that ooops some live virus was in the vacine[and you never noticed these epidemics allways come along with the market collapse]or times govt is passing through its adgenda and needs a destraction for the sheep[le..

[baaa baaa [back to the bleatup back to the govt subversives trolling topic redirections,yes men/women doing as they are ordered..[even unto treason]..god less trolls..[much like that opt-us advert with the ghoul flashing in your faces]..subliminal's you barely notice

"Well at the moment if you loose your business, or your job and you have 'assets' then you will not get the dole straight away. All I am saying is that it appears that the farmers get relief when it doesn’t rain and relief when it rains too much.”

Is it a romantic view of farming that keeps the government giving them relief? The little three bedroom house on a huge plot of land and they get up at dawn and slog away until sunset and we should all help them if in drought or flood. The news doesn’t show the farmer living in an 8 bedroom mansion, indoor pool, with acres of overwatered lush gardens.

Agriculture was important for a long time, it drove the country yeah? But the relief is probably based in some nostalgic view of farming…?

So can someone tell me the real purpose of the help?

“Now most businesses that close have been trading at a loss until such time as all their reserves have been exhausted, then they shut.”

One doesn’t often here a business complaining that times are too good and they have money to burn.

Risk and Reward baby. But another thought was that I am guessing that businesses pay a lot of tax and it must be less than pleasant to see tax money go to one industry in the form of relief and not others. How is it decided when, under what circumstances and how help is given?

“As for diseases I still say that globalisation is our biggest problem. The world has become too small and too accessible to many.”

I disagree, that was far too easy to blame people going places. This speaks towards how disease moves not why it occurred

PF explains further:

“Not as small as in the pig world rehctub. Thousands upon thousands of pigs crammed into sheds. No sunlight no natural stimulation. Forced to live with their own excrement. Artificial heat, lighting, reproduction, growth stimulants, hormones and the overuse of antibiotics and other drugs. Add in the frightening amount of toxic effluent they produce along with the threat it presents to air and water quality, and we have a giant, very efficient disease incubator.

How long can we bury our heads in the sand?”

I think one should check out the wallet on the bits remaining out of the sand PF. Obviously only money could allow a person who knows they are responsible for treating animals like this to sleep well at night. Well there is another reason but in invokes horror.

So in Aussie – because I have been looking and can’t work it out. Who polices these intensive farms to ensure the animals are healthy, let alone born and living in an environment that does not shame this nation?

“I think it's the animals' revenge. And how richly deserved!”

Wow. I think the animals got it wrong Nicky2, aren’t they being slaughtered now and also dying from the disease themselves? But UnderOneGod is saying it wasn't the pigs...?

As our family have used this material ourselves for most bacteria and virus for seven years I thought it appropriate to share this knowledge. Take your time to listen to the full (non sales) tape.
http://www.audioacrobat.com/play/WbS2yRZs

“Not as small as in the pig world rehctub. Thousands upon thousands of pigs crammed into sheds. No sunlight no natural stimulation. Forced to live with their own excrement. Artificial heat, lighting, reproduction, growth stimulants, hormones and the overuse of antibiotics and other drugs. Add in the frightening amount of toxic effluent they produce along with the threat it presents to air and water quality, and we have a giant, very efficient disease incubator.

I really think you two need to get out and see how an aussie piggery is run.

They don't stand in their own waste, that is rubbish. They are on suspended floors and the waste falls though and is washed away. Nor do they polute their water as they water from 'nipples'ot troughs.

Our piggeries are the cleanest in the world and remember, they are purpose bred for 'food'. They are not pets, nor should they be treated as such. There is no difference between a farmer growing barramundi and one growing pigs. They both do it for a living and supply the demand.

If you animal walfare lot had your way we would be growing our 'food animals' in airconditioned resorts, which may be a good idear except the consumer just won't pay the price.

And finnaly, as OUG says, swine flu is not caused by pigs.

A few too many assumptions rehctub and an obvious lack of knowledge of the pig industry. An industry that relies on ignorance for its survival.

Predictably enough, I am right there with PF on this. Rechtub, with all due respect, can you tell us how many intensive pig farms you have seen? And of course it is much nicer for you to believe APL's propaganda, since you buy/sell such products. There are some truly intensive appalling pig farms; one not that far away from where I am where Departmental officers recently had to go in and shoot a number of the pigs, so ill and injured were they. That particular 'farmer' sells to Woolworths and the conditions were reported as being "absolutely filthy".

Having said that, I do agree about the privileged agriculture sector; those of the rest of us who have businesses which fall on hard times do not receive such handouts.

Sorry, One Under God, I couldn't understand very much of your post; cryptic would be an understatement. But it ia hardly rocket science figuring that distressed animals, loaded with chemicals/medication, crammed into airless sheds with no natural light or fresh air or opportunity to just be pigs (or chickens), are going to trigger some form of zoonotic disease; be at pigs or chickens.

A recent news report showed that Christian enclaves in Egypt where pigs are farmed has been a shocking victim of this; the pigs were rounded up, thrown into trucks, later dragged out and smashed against walls to kill them. Hardly seems fair, since the animals have not caused this.

Nicky

nicky2 scroll up just before halfway you will see i there posted specific links[hardly cryptic when the links spell out the whole scam]

but like most respondants you dont bother reading that proof

on the other redirect[yes there are some barbaric animal husbandry practices, because doing the right thing for the beasts costs money[and the likes of wool-lies,dont pay full/price..[while they can get some vile pervert to grow their meat by employing barbaric cruelties]

never the less virus dont spontaniously appear,they need a source[that source usually is some vacine]the main vector[historiclly]as revealed by the links

[and the links provide the true source,isnt the animals but human swine,..in laboritries paid to eliminate any alternative food supply[paid to get everyone..[yes even in time yabby]..out of food supply] so we cant grow our own..so in time we will work for food

read the link..how many of the lab coated bio engeneer-[rats]died,once their vile work was done[the elites that plan to genocide us have no concious]..

but you will persist in ignoring the links..[and im over posting them..look just go get your soon to be compulsory vacine

"Our piggeries are the cleanest in the world...."

That is not correct Rehctub. In fact past footage, provided by the Australian press revealed the true state of industrialised pig farming in Australia which is a bloody disgrace. Following is one of the more recent cases of cruelty to pigs, which has landed in court and where the perpetrators will get the obligatory slap on the wrist.

The defendants in this case house 40,000 pigs on site every day which is sheer lunacy and a recipe for disaster.

And the current swine flu is not the first triple hybrid human/bird/pig flu virus to have been uncovered. The first was found in a North Carolina industrial pig farm in 1998, and within a year it had spread across the United States.

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuId=146&ContentID=132383

Nicky:“A recent news report showed that Christian enclaves in Egypt where pigs are farmed has been a shocking victim of this; the pigs were rounded up, thrown into trucks, later dragged out and smashed against walls to kill them. Hardly seems fair, since the animals have not caused this.”

Does Australia export pigs? I’m going cross eyed looking up sites that explain how we treat our animals, it is also very confusing. I found sheep and cattle being sent places alive which I don’t understand because wouldn’t a country make more money if they did the killing, skinning, chopping up and packaging themselves?

If we don’t like imports that lead our own businesses to lose profit and also we maybe don’t trust the integrity of products is there also no concern that we send our own creatures to be treated in a way we can’t control. Going back to throwing pigs against walls in Egypt, their country, their pigs so their call but do we send our animals to places to be killed in a way that we ourselves would see as illegal/barbaric?

I guess the ethical question isn’t something I really have a good grasp on yet but the business side of transporting any animal overseas in any other form apart from chopped and frozen does not seem to make any sense.

Rehctub:”Our piggeries are the cleanest in the world and remember, they are purpose bred for 'food'. They are not pets, nor should they be treated as such. There is no difference between a farmer growing barramundi and one growing pigs. They both do it for a living and supply the demand.”

Oh, you seem to have missed something important. Pigs like rolling in mud, they are very social. I’m a bit of a sucker for pigs, I had a pet pig who I must say was rather spoilt, her name was "Sausage". And I did grow up eating all my pet sheep.

So they are sterile here, great, cleanest pigs in the world, never see a germ come out of an Australian piggery… just miserable animals, to make a profit. Isn’t this shameful?

Was watching something on TV the other night and a comment was made about how we can judge a society by how they treat their dead. Made me roll my eyes, I think it would be more accurate to judge a society by how we treat all things living.

“If you animal welfare lot had your way we would be growing our 'food animals' in air-conditioned resorts, which may be a good idea except the consumer just won't pay the price.”

I like kittens and puppies etc but I am guessing the animal welfare remark was aimed elsewhere. Consumers will always pay whatever the price says; we are not in a bartering country. Do we need “state fixed” pricing just to stop our food animals being miserable?

Without law are we incapable of being decent?
(This question should probably be another whole thread aye)

Predictably enough, I am right there with PF on this. Rechtub, with all due respect, can you tell us how many intensive pig farms you have seen?

Hey, we can all find an isolated case of abuse if we look hard enough. I am reffering to our industry as a whole.

Oh, you seem to have missed something important. Pigs like rolling in mud,
Well, as you mentioned it, pigs are actually a clean animal, much cleaner than dogs. They would be just as happy lazing around in your pool as in the mud.

just miserable animals, to make a profit. Isn’t this shameful?
Ok, so I assume you work. Do you go to work to make a proffit (wage)

Now I am the first to agree that 'cowboys', in any industry should be prosecuted. The same as many butchers add preservatives and ofal to the mince they sell. It doesn't mean we are all bad, does it!

As long as there is a huge demand for food and consumers want the best price, short cuts will always occurr.

And for the record, I don't hate animals and I do feel for the ones who have to endure cruelty, but not all are like this.

By all means stamp out the cowboys, you have my full support and I support you 100% on a total ban on live exports.

Retchub:”Well, as you mentioned it, pigs are actually a clean animal, much cleaner than dogs. They would be just as happy lazing around in your pool as in the mud.

In that case it was me that missed something important. I had a grubby little horror of a pet pig.

“Ok, so I assume you work. Do you go to work to make a profit (wage)”

Err… no I don’t but I get the sentiment. I couldn’t knowingly work to further or support abuse. I also hadn’t thought much about intensive farming until about a week ago so yes I have probably bought meat from unhappy animals. I’m not going to anymore. Oh, question: How does one know the difference when shopping?

“Now I am the first to agree that 'cowboys', in any industry should be prosecuted. The same as many butchers add preservatives and offal to the mince they sell. It doesn't mean we are all bad, does it!”

Bloody hell – do they? Like when you just buy plain mince? No you’re right; I didn’t mean to imply any overgeneralisations.

“As long as there is a huge demand for food and consumers want the best price, short cuts will always occur.”

Whose job is it to stop it? And I still can’t work out who visits these farms and monitors how they are run.

“And for the record, I don't hate animals and I do feel for the ones who have to endure cruelty, but not all are like this.”

It’s not hate though is it, more that people don’t look too closely because we might then feel the need to do something about it or not sleep at night.

“By all means stamp out the cowboys, you have my full support and I support you 100% on a total ban on live exports.”

Cheers. Why does Australia export things alive anyway? How does that make more money than having a factory in Oz do it and then send it all wrapped up in one of those big freezer ships?

Whose job is it to stop it? And I still can’t work out who visits these farms and monitors how they are run.

They are monitored in QLD by Safe Food. SF monitors all production, processing and retailing of meats. Look uo their web site if you wish.

Well, i am not emotionally attached to the animals that I cut up and sell. I do however only buy from acrredited suppliers and place my trust in the system. I have no choice.

Cheers. Why does Australia export things alive anyway? How does that make more money than having a factory in Oz do it and then send it all wrapped up in one of those big freezer ships?
Well, this one will go un-answered for ever I think. Got me!

Retchub:"They are monitored in QLD by Safe Food. SF monitors all production, processing and retailing of meats. Look up their web site if you wish."

I will go find them, no idea why this subject suddenly struck a note with me. Think it was my sick dog which I suspect might be upgraded now to dying dog.

Safe food - they sounds like an organisation that is concerned about the final product. Don't the RCPCA crowd go check out farms - wouldn't they be the ones that were worried about the animals while they are alive?

"...and place my trust in the system. I have no choice."

Crikey - does anyone who can read and write trust a system? I think you have no choice but to question everything in this life baby.

""...having a factory in Oz do it and then send it all wrapped up in one of those big freezer ships?""
"Well, this one will go un-answered for ever I think. Got me!"

Anyone else round here know? I cannot work out why there would be more money in it so I guess I am missing something people in this business know that to me, ethics aside, has no logic.

For any one who still thinks factory farming is in the best interests of the pigs,or our own health for that matter, check this out
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/05/08/2565046.htm

For any one who still thinks factory farming is in the best interests of the pigs,or our own health for that matter, check this out
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/05/08/2565046.htm

Oh, yuck. But thank you - I was all over the place trying to work out if the RSPCA inspected these places and looks like they don't.

So if an intensive farm is this bad it first takes someone to have knowledge of it and then all they can do is ring the police?

Is this one of the systems that Rechtub trusts in?

The more I hang around here the more depressed I become, far too much reality for someone who's neighbours clap if I manage to get past the mailbox.

Thanks for the link PF. The news is unsurprising but certainly abominable. And only the large use of antibiotics is keeping these filthy incarcerated animals alive. Equally abominable are the greedy hogs who grow these pitiful animals and then expect consumers to eat them. I mean let's face it - you couldn't even serve one up to a Nazi on Anzac Day.

However, it doesn't stop there either. The use of non-therapeutic antibiotics on Australia's favourite farmed fish, Atlantic salmon, has risen disturbingly as diseases flare in their sea pens.

From 12 kilograms a year a decade ago, the antibiotics used at salmon and trout farms totalled almost eight tonnes in the first three months this year, according to government departmental figures.

Tasmania's Primary Industries Minister, David Llewllyn, said it is disturbing … that the industry has used nearly double the amount of antibiotics than was anticipated in the permit applications.

Strange that he's expressed concern given that he appears totally indifferent to Tasmania's disgraceful operations in the industrialised farming of pigs? Oink oink! Or should that be wink wink?