Dickie, yes you are correct that thimerosol is still used in adult vaccines in Australia. I should have said there was none in children’s vaccines, which I thought was where the concern lay. I got so cranky about this anti-vaccine rhetoric that I wrote in a hurry and left the word children's out.

I repeat, I am not saying that vaccinations are not without danger of side effects, but there is plenty of evidence that the benefits of vaccination far outweigh the dangers. Unfortunately, vaccination tends to be a victim of its own success. Most people no longer remember devastating smallpox or measles epidemics and have become complacent.

If you have not had many vaccinations as a child, you have indeed benefitted from the herd immunity in not contracting some dangerous childhood diseases. Unfortunately, too many people forgoing immunisation leads to breakdown in herd immunity. Whooping cough is now endemic in Boulder, Colorado due to too many parents shunning vaccination. Likewise, measles is on the rise in the UK following the groundless MMR scare. Far more importantly, herd immunity protects those who can’t safely be vaccinated, such as people who have allergic reactions to vaccines or people being treated for cancer. Choosing not to be vaccinated shifts the disease risk on to these and other vulnerable members of the community and is, in my opinion, selfish.

In the US, the CDC decided to direct vaccine manufacturers to remove thimerosol from children’s vaccines, not because there was any evidence of harm, but because the public concern over thimerosol might lead to a reduction in vaccinations, reducing the herd immunity.

Agronomist

Thimerosal is still contained in infant hepatitis B vaccines. In addition, the Commonwealth NCIRS advises that thimerosal was removed from other infant vaccines “to reduce exposure in very small premature babies with low body weight in whom there was a theoretical risk that the intake of mercury from repeated doses of thiomersal-containing vaccines could have been high, etcetera.” Their admission does not acknowledge “public concerns” as a reason for removing thimerosal as you claim.

http://www.ncirs.usyd.edu.au/facts/f-thiomersal.html#6

Sajo

You’ve now wasted my time and as a result of your ignorance, which you attribute to others, I reiterate the information (admissions?) I had already provided:

“In 1969, three vaccines against rubella were licensed for use in the United States: HPV-77:DE-5 (from duck embryo), HPV-77:DK-12 (from dog kidney), and Cendehill strains (from rabbit kidney).

"HPV-77:DK-12 was withdrawn from the market due to a high rate of associated joint problems.

"In 1979, all strains were discontinued with the introduction of RA 27/3 (from human diploid fibroblast) which is still currently used. The whole-cell pertussis vaccine was used from its introduction in the 1930's until 1991 unchanged.

“Concerns about adverse systemic reactions such as convulsions, acute encephalopathy, and lasting brain damage led scientists to develop the acellular pertussis vaccine, which was licensed for use in 1991.

"Adverse events such as convulsions, persistent crying, and hypotonic hyporesponsive episodes occurred at a higher rate among infants vaccinated with the whole cell vaccine than with the acellular vaccine.”

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/bv.fcgi?highlight=thiomersal&rid=hstat6.section.2094

“Convulsions, acute encephalopathy and lasting brain damage” concerns over some 60 years sajo?

For ten years, on a daily basis, I was responsible for tending to the ailments, prangs and spills of some 500 male students. Many of the parents, over a decade, were doctors and from the mouths of their babes comes truth. How many doctors is confidential and is not your business sajo. This thread is not a royal commission.

That you have not met anyone damaged by a vaccine is like saying you’ve not met anyone stricken with cancer from exposure to industrial benzene, methylmercury or POPs - difficult to prove and how the perpetrators rejoice!

Hi Dickie,
Well, like Sajo, I was puzzled, too, why you said that many doctors don’t vaccinate their own children.
It’s a bit like the claim of creationists that many scientists don’t believe in evolution when in reality this claim is based on a lie because only a handful of scientists don’t believe in evolution and of those none are biologists.

Doctors (are supposed to) know about the Number Needed to Harm so that’s why I thought that it would be unlikely that many doctors don’t vaccinate their own children. I came across this article and perhaps this is where the rumour came from.

http://www.cure-guide.com/Natural_Health_Newsletter/Doctors_Decline_Vaccines/doctors_decline_vaccines.html

“Nonpediatricians were twice as likely as pediatricians to deviate, for their own child, from the recommended schedule. Pediatricians were more likely to give Hib, measles, mumps, and hepatitis B vaccines to their own children than nonpediatrician parents.”
I guess pediatricians know better about the risk to unvaccinated children than general practitioners.

Have you looked at that radio link posted by CL? Did you see that people like Jenny McKarty are the scaremongers who get to speak on that radio program?
If you delve a little bit deeper you’ll find that McKarty takes her autistic son to a quack who sells snake oils (homeopathic ‘remedies’ etc) to people to give to their children and while some of his advice is reasonable, such as prevention, hygiene, he also utters similar nonsense as the infamous homeopath, Wakefield. Don’t start me on Wakefield!
If there were proof that homeopathy and other snake oils worked it would cease to be classed as ‘alternative medicine’ and be fitted in with orthodox medicine.

If it weren’t so tragic it would be quite funny that this ‘pediatrician’ (Jay Gordon) of McKarty’s son does sometimes vaccinate children against polio when their parents plan to take them to endemic countries.
Why the hell does he think endemic countries are endemic?

Please just look at the video that I linked to at the top of my previous post about the non-link between autism and vaccines.

The following information is worth a read for those who are interested in current evidence based scientific research and don't have a pathological mistrust of anything that comes from the experts.
http://www.immunise.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/2A6F1217513F4E59CA25719D001833F8/$File/myths-4th-edition.pdf

Information on the amount of thimerosol and associated risks in childhood vaccines can be found here:

http://www.ncirs.usyd.edu.au/facts/thiomersal.pdf

celivia, autismone is not a fear mongering web site (nor is jenny McCARTHY). as far as "the snake oil salesman" that you reference that treated Jenny's child, have you taken the time to notice that evan now no longer has the diagnosis of autism? 4000 plus years of homeopathy and less than 400 years of "traditional" profit driven medicine? who are the snake oil salesmen?
the CoMed study that just came out does the research and shows the mercury toxicity of autistic children ( my son did the UPPA test from Dr. Nataf in Paris). The animal trials study (with macaque monkeys) was just introduced in London this past spring and is soon to be published in a peer reviewed journal. This study by Dr. Burbacher used the vaccine schedule from the nineties in the U.S. when the vaccine rate and the autism rate jumped exponentially, the macaques given the TCV's exhibited signs of autistic behavior, the others did not.
Just as Dr. Healy (former dir. of the NIH) stated , they won't do the studies because they're afraid of what they'll find. Chicago Home First Clinics has 20,000 families in their clinic (35,000 children). 98% of them are 100% unvaccinated...they have 5% of the asthma rate of their vaccinated peers in Chicago and the clinic has two autistic children...both were vaccinated prior to becoming patients. If the powers that be want to shut people like me up, I would suggest finally doing the vaxx'd / unvaxx'd study.
The science is on our side and the proof, to me personally, is watching a perfectly developing child that was walking and talking turn very sick mere days after 9 vaccines.
You really should listen to the show before you make a judgement, but then again, you seem as if you've already made up your mind. I'm on the air live from 11am - 12 pm EST in the US. Give it a shot. 2009 is going to surprise a lot of people in the "scientific" community.
Have a happy new year!

C L Sr, if you don’t mind me saying so your last post makes you look like an ignoramus or deluded or both. A little bit of research tells me that homeopathy was invented by one Samuel Hahnemann in 1796, making it according to my calculations just over 200 years old. Unlike evidence-based medicine, homeopathy has not changed in the intervening 212 years and ignores all discoveries since, such as Avogadro’s number, germ theory, genetics, and molecular biology to name a few. http://www.hpathy.com/Status/homeopathyhistory.asp

The trials with macaque monkeys, did not show vaccinations caused autism in monkeys. In fact they showed very little. They were also co-authored by Andrew Wakefield, who is being investigated in the UK for unethical conducting invasive medical procedures on young children. Wakefield had a vested interest in finding a link between autism and vaccines, because he was being paid by a law firm to find such a link. http://briandeer.com/wakefield/gmc-notice.htm http://www.gmcpressoffice.org.uk/apps/news/events/index.php?month=1&year=2009#

The vax/unvax study has been done in Denmark. More correctly it is a thimerosal/no thimerosal study. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/112/3/604 Figure 1 should clinch it for you.