Let's be frank and honest about this. This whole "Jordan Is Palestine" stuff is just an attempt to justify the forced removal of Palestinian Christians, Muslims and Druze from their ancestral home. Singer is little more than an apologist for the Israeli loony fundamentalist Right who think that G-d has turned into their real estate agent. Anyone who believes this tripe is obviously the victim of a brain explosion.

Actually, the 'ancestral' home of ALL Palestinians is Syria, the original province of the Turkish Empire which included present day Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Israel. The 'ancestral' home you speak of is an invention of the British Colonial Office, which drew the boundaries by reference to the political imperatives of the day, such as France insisting on ownership of Lebanon & Syria and ensuring that the leader of the Bedouin who had assisted the British Armies was rewarded with the new kingdom of Transjordan which took in some 80% of the mandated area after the boundaries of Syria and Lebanon had been decided upon. The reward promised to the Arabs under the Balfour declaration was originally to be that of Transjordan (the only Arab leader to actively support the British in the area - the Mufti most assuredly did not).

That being so, it is eminently arguable that the land promised to the Jews, who actively & militarily supported the British/Empire forces (eg Zion Mule Corps, which saw service in Gallipolli) in return for that support, is the remaining 20%. While the legality of the position is questionable, although with good legal support eminently arguable, the fact is that it is a prime bargaining position in any peace talks. This especially, when the basic bargaining position of the other side is and has been since 1948, that Israel was not entitled to anything (even existence).

You really must remember, International Law is not set by the UN, it is established by reference to International Legal norms. From a normative perspective, the opinions or otherwise of the actual inhabitants of 'Palestine' are irrelevant, the only opinion that counts is that of their leaders at the relevant times. Israel conquered the West Bank from Jordan, which has conceded ownership of the same to Israel, much the same way that Israel conquered the Gaza Strip from Egypt, which has made similar concessions. Quite frankly, the legality of their respective post-conquest grants of independance to the people inhabiting the same is seriously questionable.

Another strong bargaining position, eh?

Haganah Bet,

You're so clever but you've tripped yourself up.

'You really must remember, International Law is not set by the UN, it is established by reference to International Legal norms.'

Yes and one of the chief legal norms is the Geneva Convention and that expressly forbids the stealing and settlement of lands taken by conquest.

And it was the UN that mandated the state of Israel. Should we all ignore that mandate and return to the state of affairs in existance before that action? What are the international legal norms involved in the formation of a state in another peoples' homeland?

It seems you'd want to apply UN conventions only when it suits the purposes of Israel. You are damnable and oh so bloody clever!

Doh!

You blokes who insist the Palestinians and Arabs should sit meekly by and allow your weasel words and slimey land stealing be accorded prominence and legality over the rights of people who have title to the land is sickening.

It is you people who are the impediment to peace in the middle east. You are warmongers who support a fascist and racist regime. And if Olmert is any indication ... a corrupt regime.

'Bush, a strong supporter of Olmert and Israel, has generally been polite about the issue. But during an interview with Reuters on Thursday, Bush said that the outpost and settlement issue would be on his agenda as an obstacle toward progress toward peace with the Palestinians.

"I will talk about Israeli settlement expansion, about how that is, that can be, you know, an impediment to success," Bush said. "The unauthorized outposts for example need to be dismantled, like the Israelis said they would do."' George Bush Jan 2008. (nb the date, especially the year 2008 AD.)

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/04/africa/mideast.php

Singer is so far out of touch with the current position of George Bush and the current US administration. And he should also seek the positions of the current contenders for US president. Once the appeasement statements to the US Israeli Lobby are stripped away there is an underlying desire similar to good 'ole Georges current position.

Jeez David you need to keep up to date. The world really has woken up to you supporters of the facist and racist pariah state of Israel, and your irrelevant propaganda.

Have a read of the complete article and see what most of the world recognises and will soon start demanding. Mate the movement is coming like a tsunami.

Hagannah Bet,how can vile Zionists like you talk so glibly about the opinions of the people of Gaza and the West Bank being irrelevant just because the Arab leaders were pressured into conceding the territories to Tsrael? The lands were never theirs (that of leaders) to concede;the lands belonged to the people of Gaza and The West Bank or Transjordan. Was a plebscite ever held to determine self-determination? No. The sad thing is that it is one of the many immoral failures of the United Nations to have acquiesced so meekly to a perfidy such as we are discussing. The same thing happeneed in Kashmir despite the Indians promising to hold such a plebicite to give the 90% Muslim Kashmiris to determine their own destiny.

socratease

Keith: "Yes and one of the chief legal norms is the Geneva Convention and that expressly forbids the stealing and settlement of lands taken by conquest."

On this basis you should be equally concerned about the illegal occupation of much of Cyprus by Turkey. Or the stealing of land by Arab militias in Darfur. Or the forcing out of Hindus from Kashmir. Perhaps the ethnic cleansing of Christians from Iraq should rate a mention. Oh, that's right, the perpetrators are Muslims, so anything they do is fine by you.