Passy: "viking13, the problem I have with your analysis is that Hitler took much the same approach to Jewish people - ie he distinguished them in part because of their supposed religious and cultural differences.

In fact with many of the discusssionss on this site you need only change muslim to jew and you've got Hitler's arguments to a tee. I'd go so far as to say that they are proto fascist arguments."

Rubbish. Utter tripe. The position of the Jews in Nazi Germany pre-WWII and the position of Muslims in modern society are completely different. Jews were in fact quite well integrated into Germany (in fact their common language was a German dialect!). The Jews elucidated no program to "rule Germany" or any other European nation for that matter, and were of course present in too few numbers to have been able to do so. Contrast with Islamic teachings which are spread wide and far, and by far greater numbers, in modern societies. The Jews were also well-educated and found in many professions like medicine.

Hindus are present in Australian society in considerable numbers, yet do we hear anything from them? No. Do we hear anything from Taoists, Buddhists or Sikhs? No. Jews did nothing to deserve what happened to them- and what "happened" to Muslims id nothing whatsoever like what happened to Jews. In fact, the "leading lights" in anti-Jewish feeling are, guess who? Muslims! Who are the Fascists of the late 20th and early 21st centuries? The Muslims.

You'll have to come up with something better, Passy.

One sure way to build mistrust and to encourage prejudice is to have segregated schools. In Northern Ireland, during the "troubles", only 1% of the pupils went to mixed schools, open to catholics and to protestant pupils.

Dear Passy

you presented a very stereotypical and incorrect view of Christians.

<We're not racist but ... we just don't like people who are not Christian>

If people are Christian, they should reflect Christ, who said:

If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?
Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
And if you greet only your brothers,
what are you doing more than others?
Do not even pagans do that?
Be perfect, therefore,
as your heavenly Father is perfect.

DISAGEEMENT MEANS HATE?

Disagreement does not.. repeat not signify 'hate' or dislike of people.
The assertion of set of values and the criticism of others, again, does not mean you hate or dislike those people who hold those values.
IF....they hold them in sincere uneducated ignorance.

JESUS REBUKED?

Nevertheless, Jesus rebuked and criticized and
reprimanded certain groups of people.
The main classes of people he did condemn were:

1/ Those who were educated about the scriptures (Pharisees and Scribes) but who rejected his credentials
which were unambiguously before their eyes (miracles, signs)

2/ Those who, while not educated still rejected God and He himself, and the Gospel in the face of unquestionable evidence of the miraculous which should have drawn them to faith.

REALITY

"Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida!
For if the miracles that were performed
in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon,
they would have repented long ago,
sitting in sackcloth and ashes.
But it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon
at the judgment than for you.
And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies?
No, you will go down to the depths.

What would Jesus say of you..... ?

viking13

You say in response to my comment that much of the criticism of Muslims echoes Hitler's crticism of Jews that:

"Rubbish. Utter tripe. The position of the Jews in Nazi Germany pre-WWII and the position of Muslims in modern society are completely different. Jews were in fact quite well integrated into Germany (in fact their common language was a German dialect!). The Jews elucidated no program to "rule Germany" or any other European nation for that matter, and were of course present in too few numbers to have been able to do so. Contrast with Islamic teachings which are spread wide and far, and by far greater numbers, in modern societies. The Jews were also well-educated and found in many professions like medicine."

I was arguing that the lies Hitler used about jews are similar to those being spread about Mulsims (including world domination.) I am not saying Hitler's lies were correct, just that they appear to be the same arguments used today by some to oppose Muslims in Australian society.

In fact you appear to be saying Hitler's lies were incorrect in relation to jews but that the arguments (non-assimilation, different culture, different religion, world domination) are valid if applied to Muslims. Can't you see the problem with this?

The stereotype of Muslims you present follows (inadvertently) the same pattern as the extreme right and jews.

Can't you see the similarity? Hitler lied through his teeeth about jews (different culture, language, history, religion, role in society, world domination etc) to create a sense of fear, to unify "Germans" against a supposed common enemy (and use this unifier initially as a smokescreen for smashing unions and left parties and driving wages down to restore German profit rates.)

It appears to me it is Hitler's lies that are now being repeated by some in the Camden and other debates. The target this time is not jews but Muslims.

The lies remain eeerily similar across the ages.

Passy,
Quote. "The lies remain eerily similar across the ages"

Do you mean by that the muslims do not deserve their bad reputation and all the things said about their bad conduct are lies. Forget the rest of the world, I am refering to Australia only. Other places open up a whole worse situation.

Over the years there have been thousands of media reports of bad conduct (by our standards) by Muslims and most have been repeated on OLO from time to time, as well as personal experiences. Are they all lies?

If so for what purpose?

In the UK, with the intention of not offending any religious beleif, all beleif systems are generally avoided during assemblies in state schools. Alternatively, pupils can opt out of attending assemblies (or classes)in case there may be a religious element introduced. The overall result is that "the baby is thrown out with the bath water". Generally, in many state schools, especially in some inner-city schools, there is a lamentable lack of discipline.

The best schools encourage and extol the virtues of self-discipline (not just discipline), where pupils of mixed background attend.

The worst schools are those where - either by circumstances or by design - pupils are drawn exclusively, or predominantly, from one community, or from one religious beleif.

Hope that the Australians are not going down the path that leads to awful schools.