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The Forum > Article Comments > Master of Islamist doublespeak > Comments

Master of Islamist doublespeak : Comments

By Melanie Phillips, published 7/3/2008

Tariq Ramadan's reputation as a Muslim reformer owes everything to the wishful thinking of those who want to believe in him.

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I am gratified that OLO has the courage to publish Melanie Phillips.
She is the only fearless and articulate writer to expose in a reasoned way the sole characteristic of Islam and Islamists -evil.

"Londonistan" is one of the most frightening books I have read.

iudex
Posted by iudex, Friday, 7 March 2008 11:35:52 AM
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Most interesting!

<<Ramadan claims he has "no functional connection" with the Muslim Brotherhood. But he was trained at the Leicester Islamic Foundation in England, the controversial institution that propagates the doctrines of the key Islamist ideologues Maulana Maududi and Syed Qutb and which aims to promote "an Islamic social order in Great Britain".>>

"Functional"?.... what about 'Idealogical'?

Now..if the 'Rock Star of Islamic Modernization' is trained by the likes of Maududi, we should immediately pay very close attention.

I am often accused of 'highly selective methods' which suit my purpose.

Maududi, is the scholar who informs us that the Quran means (as if we cannot deduce this anyway from its plain obvious wording) in Surah 65:4 that Allah permits the marriage, sexual consumnation and divorce of pre-pubescent children.

Here (again for the skeptics) is what he says:

<<Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for the girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl in marriage at this age but it is also pemssible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Qur'an has held as permissible.>>

So.. this is the academic/spiritual training background of Ramadan.

One hardly suspects that Syed Qutb (blood descendant of Mohammad) would hold a contrary view.

So..for those cynics and skeptics who feel it is unfair to make such allegations I have a simple message "Turn on the light in your brains, open your eyes, and read"

And then, if you fail to see dangers of the most pernicious kind in this kind of value system growing in our community, then one has to question seriously your rationality, good sense and judgement about pretty much everything.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 7 March 2008 11:55:44 AM
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The left's embrace of the tawdry little Jihadi Jew hater, Tariq Ramadan, is unspeakable.

SNIP

"...Sarkozy accused Ramadan of defending the stoning of adulterers, a punishment stipulated in the section of the Islamic penal code known as huddud. Ramadan replied that he favored "a moratorium" on such practices but REFUSED TO CONDEMN THE LAW OUTRIGHT."

(Emphasis added)

Question for Ramadan: Should adultery be a criminal offence at all?

SNIP

"...Ramadan posted an article on a Web site ..."Critique of the (New) Communalist Intellectuals." ...Ramadan's main argument was that "French Jewish intellectuals" — like Bernard-Henri Lévy, … and Pierre-André Taguieff (in fact not Jewish at all) — who used to be "considered universalist intellectuals" had become knee-jerk defenders of Israel ..."

"Ramadan's attack was unfair. The intellectuals he mentioned had all championed many causes other than Israel, including putting a stop to the mass murder of Muslims in Bosnia. And by compiling this blacklist of Jews and placing a philosopher whose name merely sounded Jewish among them, he opened himself to the charge of anti-Semitism."

See:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/04/europe/web.0204tariq.php?page=5

Ramadan has since done his best to explain away his refusal to condemn stoning outright.

Here is some of the reality of stoning.

SNIP

"... Article 102 [of Iran's penal code] explains that prior to the stoning, men must be buried up to their waists in a pit, and women up to their breasts, so their upper bodies are exposed but they cannot move. ... Article 104 explains that the stones must be large enough to inflict pain, but "not large enough to kill the person by one or two strikes." An excruciating death is the goal - most are reported to take around 20 minutes.

See:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/952501.html

See also:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7aLxywU-88

Of course hanging in the public square for adultery is also barbaric.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTv6ZDRyqe8

Civilised discourse with the likes of Tariq Ramadan is not possible.

That being said Ramadan should not be censored. If Griffith University, in its wisdom, invites the tawdry Tariq Ramadan to be a speaker at its conferences that too is their right
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Friday, 7 March 2008 12:43:39 PM
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It would be utter stupidity for people who have been bred and nourished with the rational principles of the foremost savvy civilization of mankind, i.e., Judeo-Greco-Roman civilization, to be cozened by the Shamanistic double-speak tricks of Ramadan, whose "sweet" tongue attempts to cover the bitterness of the poisonous pill of Islam that he aims to force into the mouths of all infidels of the West.

Those who stand on the shoulders of Maimonides, Aristotle, Cicero and on all the giants of the Renaissance, must not allow Ramadan, this avatar of the caves and the dark ages, to pass the gates of the Enlightened world.

http://power-politics1.blogspot.com
Posted by Themistocles, Friday, 7 March 2008 2:34:37 PM
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I'm on the side of freedom of speech too, stevenlmeyer.

>>The left's embrace of the tawdry little Jihadi Jew hater, Tariq Ramadan, is unspeakable.<<

The same privilege is afforded to that bastion of right-wing fear and loathing, Melanie Phillips, who has been spewing anti-Islamic bile for that exemplar of even-handedness, the Daily Mail, for seven years.

I suspect that Boaz channels Mel.

"Britain... is locked into such a spiral of decadence, self-loathing and sentimentality that is incapable of seeing that it is setting itself up for cultural immolation" (Londonistan)

Substitute Australia for Britain, and that could be Boaz speaking.

"the claim that evolution enabled life to cross the species barrier so that humans are merely the last link in the evolutionary chain remains a step too far" (Daily Mail 10 April 2006)

She's into Intelligent Design, too.

"Global warming is a scam" (Daily Mail February 25 2002)

OK, so she does talk sense occasionally. Much like a week-old baby smiling, though, it's usually just wind.

"terrorism... is nothing less than a world war being waged in the name of religion - with terror its weapon of attack - whose aim is to emasculate the power and reach of western culture and replace it by the hegemony of Islam." (Daily Mail 11 July 2005)

Yep, Boaz has a soulmate.

"Phillips's paranoia is perhaps best captured by the front cover of Londonistan, which has a photo of a baby wearing a bobble hat with the words "I love al-Qaeda". Remember that incident? Some parent stuck the hat on their kid before going on a London demo against the publication of the Danish cartoons in February. It sums up Phillips's way of blowing minor incidents, or in this case mere silliness, into terrible exterminatory threats." New Statesman 12 June 2006

Boaz and YouTube? Bullseye.

Unfortunately, she comes across as a paranoid, overstimulated hysteric, who sees disaster in the way leaves move on a tree. I suggest that – much like her disciples here – she needs to understand that she is as much part of the problem as the noisiest, most fanatical imam.
Posted by Pericles, Friday, 7 March 2008 3:05:35 PM
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Hi Pericles.

Actually I hardly knew who Melanie Philips was until a few months ago.

Still.. your reaction was quite predictable. Attacking the messenger by trying to pidgeon hole her as a right wing islamophobic loony does not give your case any credibility whatsover.. by the way.. what IS your 'case' ?

She said:

"Britain... is
-locked into a spiral of decadence,
-self-loathing and
-sentimentality

that is incapable of seeing that it is setting itself up for cultural immolation"

Now..your case COULD have been "No, I disagree with those descriptions of Britain, and here is some balanced evidence of why"...

In which case of course, your post would have contributed positively rather than wasting space about me channeling her that was rather quaint.

One thing I note, in her case and mine, we argue issues and point to evidence, our opponents point to 'us'.

Please note..I didn't start this thread.. so don't give me the incessant/ad nauseum thing please. I'm just contributing.

I posted a very serious allegation in my previous post. You could have also attacked that by reasonable means, such as "The Quran does not say that" (but u'd be wrong of course) so that leaves you with "The Quran DOES say/permit this", which confronts you with the problem of "What do I do now" ? aah..simple solution, forget the point raised and just attack BOAZ.

Well.. you have your way and I have mine. I prefer issues.

It would be hardly appropriate for me to just quote John 3:16 each time I post wouldn't it ?
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 7 March 2008 6:25:16 PM
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