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The Forum > Article Comments > We can't go on living like this > Comments

We can't go on living like this : Comments

By Ted Trainer, published 20/4/2007

We say we want to save the environment, have peace, and eliminate poverty. And we do - but only until we see what this requires.

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Let's get over this nonsense that anyone owes anyone else -foreign aid is not an obligation

If Bangla -Desh had a population of 1million it's conceivable it could have a Singaporean or Malaysian standard of living but with a population of 100 million plus it’s always going to be a struggle .

If population pressures didn’t entice the desperate to colonise marginal mangrove swamps & marshes ,there would be far fewer ‘environmental refugees’.

The major “arse kicker” ( or should that be head-kicker) for Australians is going to be that regardless of the best-laid plans of environmentalists, our neighbours who don’t even have the word ‘environmentalist’ in their vocabulary ( or the concept ‘family planning’ -for that matter) , with the assistance of bleeding hearts in our ranks, are likely to gate-crash our party.

If we want to build a sustainable model within Australia we first need sustainable borders.
Posted by Horus, Saturday, 21 April 2007 7:31:58 AM
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Keep up the good work Ted, you put the challenge well.

The brick wall to social change that I find in my inquiry is that of complacency and defensiveness. I believe the challenge for change agents is to help people deal with the demons (fears) that underpin that defensiveness in a compassionate and supportive way. My view is that this is a uniquely personal process that has to, critically examine the cultural forces that create our personalities. An unsustainable culture is going to create dysfunctional personalities, (from the perspective of sustainability).

Assuming of course the individual wants to change; and here it appears we have to address the sources of human motivation. Our instinctive forms of motivation appear to me to have been shaped by evolution and culture.

To live sustainably means we have to move beyond this pragmatism of a physical survivalist mentality, that is the prevailing world view; to reembrace the nourishment and celebration of the human spirit, in new and more appropriate ways, than religion has offered in the past.

Sadly Ted , I fear the force of reason will never of of itself,be enough.
Posted by duncan mills, Saturday, 21 April 2007 9:44:51 AM
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Kumbaya keyboard chorus strikes again.

Ahhh, l feel much better about my complacency now.

Thank you.
Posted by trade215, Saturday, 21 April 2007 10:37:50 AM
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I'll say it again.

RECORD "Crude Impact" on Tuesday night's SBS, 8:30 to 10:30 with a half hour intermission for the 9:30 news. Then record "2013: Oil no more" a French production which is showing at 10:30. Then watch BOTH a number of times.

The best bit of Crude Impact is the Chapter on Peak Oil. Watch that at least 5 times after you've recorded it.

Then, to contribute sensibly to this forum, you'll need to investigate and try and debunk the scientific data presented on this movie.

Then when you can't, you might start to think along some different lines about our future. I'm not sure I agree with everything Ted Trainer writes about capitalism needing to go, but do agree many systemic things need to change. I have been quite encouraged by stuff on Worldchanging.com regarding new business systems of thinking. I do not think peak oil HAS TO mean dieoff (unless we are really stupid) but that peak oil is imminent is a scientific mathematical fact. Even Dr Karl agrees.
Posted by Eclipse Now, Saturday, 21 April 2007 10:38:01 AM
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The forecasts for our planet are scary. But what can I do as an individual in Australia? For a start I won’t be voting for an arrogant government that rushed through its ill-researched Murray-Darling takeover in an election year as a political stunt and refuses to take any steps with the environment that might threaten the economy (Global warming doesn’t?)

I do however believe that the environment, including water resources, should be a National rather than a State issue but I am not comfortable about giving politicians, with their short term focus, control. How to achieve?

On an individual level I am installing water tanks and looking at solar energy, conscious all the time that these are pathetically small steps.

I am not so sure however that the immediate solution is for us all to revert to a stone age like existence. Realistically this is not going to happen voluntarily. Is our economy not designed to respond to demand and are not the global mega-corporations capable of bringing about rapid change? Presumably then if enough people know enough to demand change in products or services change could occur rapidly.

It seems to me then that education and information is the key – bring on more of “Inconvenient Truth’, “Stern Report” etc.
Posted by Hart, Saturday, 21 April 2007 12:59:08 PM
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But Hart, the sheer difficulty of this thing is GETTING people to read the reports that are out there about oil. For some reason it is OK to talk about Global Warming — but try telling people we are about to enter the last oil crisis!

The following reporter has some interesting insights into why peak oil will NEVER be announced BEFORE the event, which is why we will walk into the crisis blindly.

"Thus, the real dilemma of coping peak oil, for a while at least, is really quite simple. If the government should lay out the full ramifications of peaking in hopes of rallying the people to make preparations, the most immediate consequence is likely to be serious economic setback triggered by an unambiguous announcement itself."
...

As no responsible government wants to see economic troubles start any sooner than absolutely necessary, there will probably never be a strong, clear, unambiguous, widely disseminated report on the timing of peak oil. The National Petroleum Council is poised to pronounce on the issue in the next few months. It would not be surprising if they come up with a formulation similar to the GAO’s. If governments have their way, we will stumble into peak oil over a period of years during which gasoline prices cycle inexorably upwards and various compensating actions are take."

http://tinyurl.com/278tge
Posted by Eclipse Now, Saturday, 21 April 2007 1:20:28 PM
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