Well Dan, since you're so "well-read" in the Christian scriptures, have a go at the Quran, you'll love it.

By the way, what is the point of your "message"?

Dan, I regret that you felt so moved, as to tears about my post. Let me do my best to clarify, and heal.
Firstly, Ash is correct. I was a missionary for some years. In a muslim country I might add. I experienced the religion first hand.

He is however not correct in his assessment of my claim about Mohammed. The tradition of Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari are THE most respected non Quranic material on the life of mohammed, and are the basis of pretty much ALL biographical accounts, along with the Quran itself. There was NOTHING misleading about my statements unless you consider your own traditions to be misleading because all I did was QUOTE from them.
I referred to Cat Stevens knowing the 'full' picture of Mohammed, because I'll guarantee that no one told him "Once u embrace Islam, the penalty for apostacy is DEATH"

I note that Ash and Irfan did not deny what mohammed did. (?)
Irfan, it was not me at that school

Dan, this does not mean we are calling on anyone to harm or hate Muslims, it DOES mean sharing truth with them. It DOES mean, that a falsehood should not be allowed to blind people. Paul said "If anyone proclaims a DIFFERENT gospel, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:6-8)

A muslim who is proclaiming the Islamic gospel, and aggessivly presenting it, is without question under the Judgement of Almighty God. This is not my 'opinion', my 'feeling', its from the Scriptures.

Dan, if you are a practicing Christian, I hope you are also an informed one. Please don't allow sentimentaliity to rule your heart.

Dan, the major point I wish to make, is that if I said the above in the country of my former service, the Special Branch would be on my case quicker than you would believe. Imams would be outraged, and demand my execution. Our friends Ash and Irfan can say what they LIKE about the Christian faith, or Christians, and no one is going to hunt them down as would happen in an Islamic country.

Death is the spirits entry into a new life for those that love God. If one has givin diligence to faith and true revelation there is no fear in death as the apostle Paul said,
"O, death where is thy victory?
O, death where is thy sting?
The sting of death is sin;
and the power of sin is the (perfect) law.
Thanks be to God because He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15: 55 - 57.

*****

That Jesus was crucified is one of the most basic tenets of Christianity: so for Islam to claim that such did not occur is to accuse Christians of deception or lies, or at least being deceived through ignorance. So what are the facts? What are the motives for deception or ignorance? Who has falsified the facts? That Jesus was crucified as believed by Christians or as disclaimed by Islam must rest upon historical reports from the time for validation. As Mohammed lived 570 - 632 AD he also relied on verbal reports, or records relayed from earlier times, so it is important to know what reports or documented evidence he listen to, or read.

To establish what actually happened we too must rely on eyewitness reports; so what documented reports are contemporary with that time for verification? The facts are actual, the claims made by one or the other are either a deceptive lie believed because of ignorance or were intentionally created by someone with a subversive agenda to deceive or discredit. Both defendants of the facts cannot be true; one claim must be intentionally concocted to deceive, and propagated by proceeding generations because of misinformation. For us to establish the facts we too must give attention to the contemporary records of the events, and the contemporary attitudes that might have distorted the facts. One only wonders what historical evidences does Muslims have to make such a claim. The claim that Jesus was crucified and was seen alive after his death has been upheld to the death by Jesus followers at the time

That Jesus was crucified was witnessed by Mary his mother, Mary of Magdalena, a Roman soldier at the cross who later became a Christian, Peter who stood aloof during Jesus trial and crucifixion [Matthew 26: 58] and later was himself crucified upside down, because he refused to be hung the same way as Jesus; and Mark writer of his gospel, Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Judas who committed suicide because his scheme failed when Jesus was condemned to death [Matthew 27: 3 - 8], Jesus cousins John and James the sons of Salome conversed with Jesus while he was on the cross, Jesus asked the apostle John to care for his mother Mary, after his death. Nicodemus a leader of the Jews and Joseph of Arameathea a devout and wealthy Jew, who converted to Christ, embalmed Jesus body in his private tomb. All these person’s stories are witness accounts as recorded in the New Testament Gospels. All reliable Jewish historians uphold that Jesus was condemned and crucified to death.

The Qur'an 19: 34 says of Jesus, "Blessed was I on the day I was born, and blessed I shall be on the day of my death and on the day I shall be raised to life." The fact of blessing from his death is identified by the Qur’an and proclaimed continually by the Christian Church and commemorated each year at Passover time as the Gospels state, and is clearly evident. To deny his death places his death as unknown and obscure and not a day recognised for blessing. So there must be an underlying agenda assumed by some Muslims to deny Jesus was crucified that is contrary to the Bible and this pasage in the Qur'an.

On this issue the Qur'an contradicts itself, or at least tries to deny the earlier Qur'anic position but notably consistently upheld by Christians.

It's an interesting exercise to compare the tone and content of the posts to these forums by those who identify themselves as Muslims and Christians, respectively. The former correspondents invariably write polite, considered posts that express their points of view without seeking to offend readers who might disagree with it. The Christians, on the other hand, with a couple of notable exceptions like JustDan and Sells, dogmatically preach their particular versions of sanctimonious fundamentalist intolerance with various degrees of shrillness, insensitivity, or downright rudeness.

Might I suggest that the Christian godbotherers here do a little less preaching and a bit more communicating?

Vale Shaykh Abu Bakr.

David,
I respect your efforts and knowledge through living in an Islamic country. Your wealth of knowledge/detail of their faith far outweighs mine. However…

Firstly, “it DOES mean sharing truth with them.”. Whose truth? Yours? Christianities? On the basis of this argument, can’t Islam argue the same? I admire your faith. It is almost equal to mine (no offence, said with a sense of irony!). But no matter how much you believe yourself right, there is no way you can prove it. Which relies on faith. On that basis, you cannot deny Islamic belief. This will become a circular argument and we will have to agree to disagree. The purpose of faith is strength. On that point it does its job well. Let’s leave this issue and move on.

“A muslim who is proclaiming the Islamic gospel, and aggessivly presenting it, is without question under the Judgement of Almighty God. This is not my 'opinion', my 'feeling', its from the Scriptures.” Well, as per the previous, this could be said (and is I might add) by the Muslim faith regarding the Christians… it’s a matter of faith – which cannot be proven or disproved.

Regarding my informedness (?!). Well I hope I am. In a joint response (to Viking), I have a copy of the Bible, the Qu’ran and even a Tao in my library (I love books). And none have burst into flame (not aimed at yourself David. You have been polite).

Finally, David, I agree that it is sad that in the current incarnation of certain cultures, there exists a paranoid, fearful and totalitarian mind-set. However, look out our own and you will see that this existed during various (and in some ways current) incarnations. How many were burned at the stake, executed and reviled for not believing as Christians did? I have a response to cultural difference, to Peter Sellick in ‘Scandal of Christianity’… feel free to have a read and join in. The more discussion, the less fear and more peace we will find.

Peace and strong faith to you all
JustDan