oh great another religious nut job moralizing over the rest of us.

Bernard lets do a thought experiment.....

Your at a hospital it is on fire and you have only a few moments to make a decision... you can either turn right and save two 1 month old babies from the fire... or you could turn left and save 100 frozen embryo's from the IVF fridge.

which way do you go?

I bet not many people would turn left.
Using your emotive language is utterly pathetic, to compare a fetus with a child is utterly pathetic.

Emotional diatribe:

You simply can't imagine what it must be like for someone falling pregnant before she is fully developed as a woman, and then as a consequence dying in childbirth, the all too common occurrence in less developed cultures!

Or having her not yet fully developed womb so damaged as to end any NATURAL prospects of having her own family!

And contrary to many beliefs, the wart (dividing cells) on the end of your nose is not a person. Nor is a similarly dividing fetus.

You would probably reject a group of nutters outside a G.P's practise waving banners that claim, wart have rights?

All human life is accompanied and identified by a human heartbeat!

My sister very nearly died trying to go full term with a baby that was, because of incompatible tissue(tissue rejection) poisoning her system(toxemia)!

And although she swelled with life threatening elephantitis, managed to give birth to a little baby that died within hours due to a damaged heart, with the upshot, my sister who wanted another baby, was never able to fall pregnant ever again, given consequent endometriosis!

I can't imagine the emotional turmoil for a rape victim, with her whole life and prospects being completely compromised due to falling pregnant while being raped.

And when she finally decides not to sacrifice the rest of her life and future prospects for a forced pregnancy, she is accosted by some mantra uttering God botherer, as she enters a clinic to reclaim HER LIFE!

What's the deal here?

Add to the already overwhelming emotional turmoil literally threatening her sanity!?

Those self appointed judges and juries, manning the barricades outside family planning clinics are totally ignorant of the reasons many might have no choice but to avail themselves of this service?

And instead need to focus on the possible plethora of justifiable reasons to reject becoming an incubator for an unwanted, or life compromising child.

Better you should stand in judgement of the person (religious fanatic) glaring back from the mirror?
Rhrosty.

"oh great, another religious nut job "....I mean to say, the standard of debate on this issue is just so impressive isn't it ? All these smart "What ifs?" ...actually I would probably opt to try to save the human embryos...in the interests of the greater number of human lives....not than ANYBODY would EVER be in that situation...No "ifs" about it Cobber, 100,000 Australian children ..unborn babies..(last time I read a report involving a pregnant mother..e.g in a motor car accident ... the expression "unborn child" or "unborn baby" was used) are abandoned every year, prematurely ejected from their natural environment.Chucked out by their mothers in collusion with the dregs of the medical profession. Where's your heart Cobber? Where it should be? Beating with the excitement and wonder of human life? Where's the "joie de vivre" in you, so positively oozing out of Bernard Toutounji? If he's "got religion", then I want a bit of it too...such a change from dour anti lifers !!

In 2000 I became pregnant. At the standard 18 week ultrasound I got to see my baby. At the follow-up appointment I wasn't expecting to hear anything except I was carrying a healthy baby. I wasn't told that. Oh, my baby appeared to be healthy, except for a tiny thing in its brain. The ultrasound showed a choroid plexus cyst. In itself it was nothing to worry about. However a choroid plexus cyst can indicate trisomy 18. If my baby had this they would be lucky to survive until birth. If they did survive the birth the baby would be catastrophically and profoundly disabled; they would be lucky to survive for three months, with seeing their first birthday extremely unlikely. The doctor was reluctant to do an amniocentesis as odds were low that the baby would have the condition. He ordered a follow up ultrasound for several weeks time. I was to go home and try not to worry.

I knew that if my baby had this condition I couldn't continue the pregnancy. I couldn't carry a baby not knowing if it would be born alive, or knowing that it wasn't going to survive. I'm a pretty strong person but I couldn't do that. And I couldn't bring a baby into the world knowing that it would have a life of suffering. So the decision was made that if the choroid plexus cyst showed at the follow up ultrasound, and subsequent testing showed the baby had the trisomy, that I would have a late term termination. This wasn't the decision of someone who didn't want the baby. This was the heartbreak of parents preparing for the worst.

I was lucky; this story has a happy ending. The follow up ultrasound showed that the cyst had resolved, and I got to see my baby again. One of the amazing midwife team made sure I was able to get the scan results the same day as the scan so that at least I would know.
In Australia abortion is a safe and legal choice. I'm grateful for that.

Thank you for your personal story Carz, it exemplifies the situation that Women can face. Abortion must be safe and available and free.

Denny your post just demonstrates the point. If you call people who believe abortion is a medical procedure that should be available to mothers anti-lifers or murders say they are abandoned their fetus but then expect polite language back you're going to be disappointed.

Thought experiments often are based on situations that are unlikely to ever happen, they are created to find deviding lines. The author has basically said that under all circumstance abortion is murder and wrong. That all human life has equal value and human life starts at conception.
The thought experiments creates a situation that test this idea. You have given your answer and my moral compass would direct me differently.

I would choose the two babies every time.

My goodness...all that and we learn your baby was baby was born alive and healthy ! How happy I was for you...But how happy I was for all those parents in countless stories I have known personally or read about, who knowingly gave birth to their Trisomy or severely handicapped babies and spoken of the gratitude and joy they experienced as parents and family cuddling and welcoming their babies into the world..for the short time they were in it. Their babies were so real to them, with images they would retain all their lives...a true member of the family. This urgency to shuffle off "this mortal coil" anyone who may be imperfect or cause some inconvenience for however short a time..?? As for suffering ..there is analgesia for pain these days...