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The Forum > Article Comments > Submission > Comments

Submission : Comments

By Jonathan J. Ariel, published 18/11/2015

In Michel Houellebecq's Submission, a novel set in 2022 France, an Islamic political party takes power and turns the country in the direction of Mecca

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The values the French need to defend are those won via bloody civil war and are Liberty, fraternity, equality, democracy. Christianity is littered with historical examples of barbarism and bloodyminded daring do that would likely make this most recent attack; look like fist fight at a sunday school picnic in any fair comparison?

Fanaticism did not start and end with muslim extremism!

For mine the only people ever defeated are those that quit,Therefore we must take this bloody struggle in all its forms and guises Up to these extremists, Until they all join their evil master in hell, the only place where these criminal monsters belong, along with those with the power of the pen advocate on their behalf.

This extremism, by the way just does not include all muslims, given some of them are also in the firing line!

Make no mistake this is a life and death struggle for a lot more than mere wealth ,control or influence!

And better fought if all those under attack become a band of brothers fighting a common enemy, rather than one another and over petty differences.
Rhrosty
Posted by Rhrosty, Wednesday, 18 November 2015 10:01:25 AM
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We certainly are going to have to start waging war against Islam. Clowns like the French ambassador and Western polticians need to have decisions taken away from them and handed over to people who actually understand Islam and the fact that terrorism is part of the Islamic credo in its bid for global domination. All this yabber about 'death cults' and 'moderate' Muslims is crap. Do these jerks who are supposed to protecting the West really think that moderate Germans actually wanted to kill and be killed in WW2? No. But they did what they were told to do, as will non-terror Muslims when the time comes. If Hitler could stir up the masses, what do they think the mad mullahs and Allah will be able to do?
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 18 November 2015 10:45:14 AM
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Things are changing so rapidly that it is impossible to predict what the humanly created world-mummery will look like even in a years time. One thing that IS guaranteed that the world wide situation WILL be worse, as all the powerful formative negative undercurrents play out their psychotic dramas on to the world stage.

There are dozens of prophetic writers and novelists who have predicted the inevitability of the current dark dystopian situation.
Two of the original examples were of course Aldous Huxley via his Brave New World, and George Orwell via 1984. We are of course now living in a closed situation like rats-in-a-trap which combines the prophetic scenarios predicted/described in both books. The situation is described by Chris Hedges in this essay.
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2010/12/27/2011-brave-new-dystopia

Meanwhile I find the insights into the origins and future consequences of the current situation found in the book The Long Emergency by James Howard Kunstler which can be found on his website. It is interesting that he wrote a novel Clusterf-ck Nation which this puritanical site censored or would not allow.
Posted by Daffy Duck, Wednesday, 18 November 2015 11:09:27 AM
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In the book of the religion of peace, many verses are 'abrogated' - that is, a later verse nullifies an earlier verse. Thus, the unchangeable word of allah, handed down to Muhammad, has been changed many times as allah re-phrases his unchangeable instructions to Muhammad, 113 times by this verse alone, the 'Verse of the Sword':

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."

Allah the merciful: well thank Christ for that.

On this web-site below, is a list of the original verses and their replacements (you can make you own mind up as to whether the later verses are more in line with a religion of peace or a brutal religion of war:

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Abrogations_in_the_Qur'an

Questions: who does the abrogating ? Allah, Mohammad or some bunch of imams and emirs long after Muhammad's death ? Do hadiths abrogate Koranic verses, long, long after Muhammad's death ? Does allah still have any more after-thoughts left ?

Mind you, what's left unabrogated was often pretty awful, brutal, merciless, so ISIS has plenty to go on with.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Wednesday, 18 November 2015 1:11:34 PM
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Joe,

Remember the passages in the Koran are not in chronological order like most books. They go from largest to smallest, if my memory serves me well. So, I don't know that we can be sure that anything has been abrogated. The other problem is, of course, that the high poobahs of Islam say that the Koran can be read only in Arabic, and that Arabic is an archaic version not used by Arabs today. Over 90% of Muslims don't know Arabic, or at least the version used in the Koran. Most Muslims do not or cannot read the Koran or Hadiths in any language. They are just told what's in it by the imams and mullahs. No matter what the average Muslim or even scholarly infidels say, they will always be told that they have misinterpreted the the words. Bit like the old bible written in Latin by the Catholic priests. The sheep had to take his word for what was in it, and that was that.

Cheers,
franc
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 18 November 2015 2:55:42 PM
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ttbn,

You are right that the Koran isn't in chronological order. The chapters are in size order. Since it wasn't originally written down (Mo being illiterate) it had to committed to memory and, apparently, it's easier to memorise these things from largest to smallest.

Nonetheless, its not that hard to reorder them chronologically. According to Hirsi Ali, among many others, the critical thing is to separate those parts which were written in Mecca from those written in Medina. In Mecca the Muhammadans were in the minority and consequently the Koran from that period is all about getting along - love thy neighbour type stuff.

But they were in charge in Medina and this is where the parts of the Koran relied on by ISIL et al comes from. His followers at the time recognised there were inconsistencies in the revelations so the abrogation idea was instituted which basically says that whatever was the most recent revelation takes precedence.

It creates problems in understanding Islam but it also gives the apologists much scope to mislead. They can point to the peaceful, loving texts (usually from Mecca) to claim this is the true Islam without acknowledging that those texts have been abrogated.
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 18 November 2015 3:58:26 PM
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