This makes Daniel Rawlinson a paranoid denier.Try arguing the science here Daniel http://ae911truth.org/ Study the science of freefall and thousands of other anomolies of 911.All 3 buildings and that includes WTC 7 were controlled demolition and that has been proven beyond any doubt.

I bet you refuse the argue the facts.BTW Woody Harrelson and Martin Sheen are starring in a new movie soon to be realeased called 'September Morn'.They along with thousands here, http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/ do not believe the offical conspiracy theory.

I suppose, Daniel Rawlinson, the most apt comment now is: case proven.

Yup. Thanks for the QED, Arjay.

It is not a new phenomenon, of course, just a new medium. The National Enquirer filled the same role in pre-internet days, along with a raft of other supermarket tabloids. Weekly World News was also good for a chuckle - one of my favourite headlines of theirs was "MICROSCOPIC SPACE ALIENS INFESTING CARPETS" - their capital letters - from the September 2006 issue.

I would suspect that the members of the population who bought those magazines are the same as those who now take these online theories seriously. It is easy for the rest of us to remain faintly amused by it all, but a part of me stubbornly remains concerned about their impact.

Not on the general public, who tend to be able to dismiss them easily. But the damage to those individuals who take them seriously, is as yet an unknown quantity.

I am becoming increasingly inclined to the view that the symptoms shown by these "truthers", "birthers" etc. are uncannily similar to addictions such as alcoholism, compulsive gambling, and eating disorders. I know personally a number of members of both AA and GA, and the recurring theme, they all tell me, is that while they were under the influence of their sickness, logic and rational thought played no part whatsoever in their decision processes. They simply could not help themselves.

The same pattern emerges with eating disorders. Anorexics and bulimics tend to be trapped in a spiral, in which dispassionate observation of their own behaviour is impossible - however bright, intelligent and capable these people may have been before the illness struck.

Promulgating silly conspiracy theories is relatively harmless to the general public, as reality eventually holds sway.

I do anticipate though, that the medical fraternity will at some point conclude that - as with alcoholism etc. - there is a brain chemistry imbalance that leads people, nolens volens, into this twilight zone of semi-reality.

Oh, and Arjay. The significance of September Morn, to me, is that Oliver Stone declined to touch it with the proverbial bargepole. Says it all, really.

Good post Pericles.

I agree; it is a new medium but not a new phenomenon. Exaggerations of the truth, blatant falsehoods, conspiracy theories and other nutty ideas have always been with us.

It really is a crying shame that good down-to-earth common-sense stuff has to battle with all this crap.

So um, I wonder what sort of addiction, compulsion or disorder leads some people to think that continuous rapid growth, and therein the completely lack of effort to balance supply and demand, is the right thing for our country?

In the face of indisputable logic to the contrary and given the blatant vested interests from those who promote never-ending rapid expansionism, this sort of stuff is deemed to be good and fair comment on sites all over the internet.

This sort antisustainability diatribe, which defies the laws of thermodynamics and any semblance of common-sense, is IMO the worst of all the dangerous rubbish out there online.

I would argue that those who believe it have a similar sort of delusion to that which you attribute to Arjay.

Perhaps the belief in conspiracy theories stems from monotheistic belief. Some monotheists believe that God has a plan for everything. If anything happens God meant for it to happen. Therefore nothing can be accidental. Happenings such as 9/11 cannot have happened because the US government messed up and ignored intelligence reports. There must be a 'real' reason which differs from the official reason. I also have a belief. My belief is that incompetence is a more probable explanation for human caused disasters than plans.

"They simply could not help themselves" got me to thinking about "this twilight zone of semi-reality."

An opportunity presents itself to medicalise the promulgation of silly conspiracy theories with the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders fifth edition release in May next year.

http://www.dsm5.org/PROPOSEDREVISIONS/Pages/PersonalityandPersonalityDisorders.aspx

As the symptoms of such web-based promulgation are broad and encompass the personality disorders being reformulated for DSM-V: Borderline, Avoidant, Dependent, Antisocial, Schizoid, Schizotypal, Paranoid, Histrionic, Obsessive-compulsive, Narcissistic and their Impairment Evaluation…

the initialism this yields, BADASS PHONIE, could be used as a descriptor for those afflicted.

Some years ago I developed a thyroid deficiency. The condition went undiagnosed for several years, during which time I acquired many of the symptoms of paranoia. I can testify that I never at any time felt that the problem might be with me: I could always find 'reasons' why my bizarre beliefs were justified.

The speed and completeness with which I recovered, when the condition was diagnosed and treatment provided, came as a revelation to me about the extent to which we are all victims of our own biochemistry. And if I were Minister for Health I would recommend a biannual blood test for everyone -- especially those embracing what are generally regarded as conspiracy theories.

This is a depressing example of what passes for journalism in Australia. The author is either credulous, too lazy to actually examine the evidence, or just another media hack content to espouse the virtues of the official conspiracy theory but unable or unwilling to actually think about the topic he so willingly debunks.

Those of us who have actually researched the events of 11 September 2001, including reading the scientific literature and several excellent books on the topic are frankly sick and tired of the ignorant half truths that are trotted out to debunk those who question the official story.

What is equally galling is that outlets like OLO are no better the the mainstream media. They publish rubbish like this article but never, ever, will publish an article that actually sets out the argument as to why the official story is so wildly improbable.

Only the terminally naive believe that the US government (or other governments for that matter) is incapable of killing innocent people to advance a geopolitical agenda. 350 words is not enough to list the documented examples on this point alone.

The title to the article is about the only unqualifiedly correct aspect of it, but not for the reasons the author imagines.

I can't help but see that as a cop-out, James O'Neill.

>>350 words is not enough to list the documented examples on this point alone<<

You should take your lead from Arjay, and at least give it a shot - he manages to cram in a great deal of nonsense into each 350-word opportunity, as I am sure you could, if you tried.

Just a word, though, about those "documented examples". If you do make the attempt to expose the incidence of governments murdering civilians in the pursuit of their "geopolitical agenda", it might be a good idea to check your facts a little more rigorously than Arjay does - in fact, even a cursory glance towards reality would be a distinct improvement. It is far too easy to see through the cut'n'paste process, which relies upon repetition, rather than fact, to make its way into our consciousness.

Yeah, I know, I'm wasting my breath. But think of it this way - I have only your best interests at heart when I explain these things to you. Most people ignore you because you are silly. I pay attention to you because I care.

What is silly about the whole 11/9 thing and the towers as an excuse
to invade is that the US could have got all the oil they wanted by
bidding $1 more than the market price.
Hell of a lot cheaper than going to war.

ps why I say 11/9 is because I refuse to comply with US date format !

>>Only the terminally naive believe that the US government (or other governments for that matter) is incapable of killing innocent people to advance a geopolitical agenda.<<

Of course the US government is capable of killing innocent people to advance a geopolitical agenda. That's not what's in issue when it comes to the 9/11 conspiracies: what's in issue is whether it was the US government or a bunch of Saudi terrorists who carried out the 9/11 attacks.

My money is on the terrorists: it seems a lot more probable than the Bush administration being able to plan, execute and then conceal such an intricate operation without fcuking it up. Now there's a wildly improbable theory if I ever heard one.

Cheers,

Tony

@Pericles: your solicitousness brings a tear to my eye. Like the author of the article you persist in ignoring the facts and purport to know whether "most people" think my arguments are silly or not. Done a survey have you? I prefer to address the issues.

Since you say you "care" may I suggest you start by learning about Operation Northwoods, to many a template for "9/11". Read Robert Stennis' book "Day of Deceit". Reflect on Madeleine Albright's admission that the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children who died as a result of the US led sanctions between 1991-2003 was "worth it". Then think about the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in Iraq and Afghanistan from 2001 to the present in wars justified by the false story of 9/11. All of this is well documented even if you prefer to sneer rather than learn the facts.

@Tony: To ask whether it was the Saudi terrorists or the US government that carried out the attacks is to pose a false dichotomy. The issue is vastly more complicated. Read Peter Dale Scott's American War Machine and David Ray Griffin's The New Pearl Harbor Revisited for a careful review of the evidence. Blowing away the official fairy tale is not the same as claiming to know all of what happened. Most serious researchers want a proper investigation which we know is unlikely to happen.

Then I suggest you read the peer reviewed scientific literature on the destruction of the 3 WTC towers. Clever chaps these Muslims: able to defy the laws of physics!

I’m a bit worried about Daniel and what kind of pages he’s “liked” or subscribed to on FB and what sort of friends he has that he appears bombarded with what he describes as “nonsense”.

Pericles points out that The National Enquirer filled the role once but even then you had to go buy it didn’t you?

@ WmTrevor, brilliant. :)

>>To ask whether it was the Saudi terrorists or the US government that carried out the attacks is to pose a false dichotomy.<<

There's a third party involved now? I'm going to guess it was the Jews.

>>Most serious researchers want a proper investigation which we know is unlikely to happen.<<

Since there's already been a proper investigation carried out by the National Institute of Standards of Technology I'm not sure what you're getting at. Unless you think the geeks from NIST are in on the conspiracy along with the government, the military, FEMA, the NSA, the FBI, the CIA, the secret service and all the other organisations which would have had to have been in on the plan.

Despite so many people being involved in this diabolical Jewish plot which saw so many innocent Americans killed not one person in any of these organisations spoke out publicly against it or even leaked anonymously to the press. Again we are in the realm of the wildly improbable.

>>Clever chaps these Muslims: able to defy the laws of physics!<<

And now we are in the realm of the impossible. The Jews may be a wily bunch but even they can't break the laws of physics: if it happened - and I'm pretty sure it did - then no laws of physics were broken.

Cheers,

Tony

James O'Neill I suspect Pericles and his followers are of a Jewish background but that is no reason to fear the truth.

When Richard Gage the founder of Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth came to Australia,we had over 300 people at the Sydney convention and of some of them were Jews Pericles.They had nothing to fear from us.911 was not just an Israeli false flag event.They had to have help from within the USA.

Why were there so many put options on United Airways? So many people knew.Even Vladmir Putin here http://patriotsquestion911.com/ said he warned the US Govt but they ignored him.

Just weeks before 911 Larry Silverstein bought the leases for the towers for a few hundred million and insured each separately for billions and made a killing.Lucky Larry Silverstein who religiously had breakfast at the Windows of the World Restrauant in the Towers, did not turn up on that fateful day.Larry said they had to "Pull" building 7 because of the damage and loss of life.Larry thought that WTC7 could have been wired in 5 to 6 hrs that afternoon but alas the cat was out of the bag.WTC7 could not be wired for controlled demolition in a few short hrs.Then Larry tried to change his story and meant pull the firemen out.But they were long gone.Luke Rudkowski from 'We are Change' has nailed Silverstein on a couple of occasions.Luke was also at our Sydney convention in 2009.


You should make the effort Pericles to study the science since the truth is emerging and will continue to do so.Most Jews like Muslims are good people.It is just the elites in our societies that create division and wars for their own greed and power that is the source of this evil.

Oh I care, James O'Neill.

My concern is whether you do.

Care, I mean.

For the truth, that is.

>>start by learning about Operation Northwoods<<

None of the proposals in Operation Northwoods (another fave of Arjay's, by the way) was ever authorized, let alone actioned.

>>Read Robert Stennis' book "Day of Deceit"<<

Stinnett invented every bit of "evidence" in Day of Deceit, and comprehensively failed to follow through on his promise to support his allegations with documentation. The only puzzle remaining in the whole saga is that anyone can possibly take such a thin tissue of conjecture remotely seriously.

>>Reflect on Madeleine Albright's admission<<

Albright's remarks, for all their callous indifference, do not add up to conspiracy. But just out of interest, has it occurred to you that Saddam would have been delighted to exacerbate the effect of sanctions, simply in order to be able to blame anyone but himself for the deaths of Iraqi children. There is evidence - real, mathematically accurate evidence - that he did precisely this.

And it is quite possible - mirabile dictu - for a reasonable person to abhor the deaths occasioned by the US reaction to 9/11, without assuming that 9/11 itself did not happen.

>>Then think about the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in Iraq and Afghanistan from 2001 to the present in wars justified by the false story of 9/11<<

You are the victim here, James O'Neill.

Far from being "peer reviewed", all the papers that deny the simple truth of the WTC buildings were controversial, and none was ever accepted by real scientists. Even Steven Jones' closest colleagues at BYU distanced them from the "conclusions" he self-published, on the basis that they lacked professional rigour. He was quietly retired, before he could bring the entire University into disrepute.

>>Blowing away the official fairy tale is not the same as claiming to know all of what happened<<

Problem is, without a plausible alternative scenario, conspiracy nuts are left with nothing. No discernible motive. No realistic means. And definitely no opportunity.

Pack of cards. One puff, all gone.

Pericles: you manifestly live within your own fact free bubble that rational discussion with you is impossible. You clearly believe what you want to believe and regardless of what I or anybody else that relies on the evidence actually says does not make any difference. You are of course free to do so, just spare the rest of us your ignorant pleadings.

But what exactly, Arjay, do you believe that puckish Mr. Putin knew?

"In this episode [BBC2's Putin, Russia and the West, ep.1], George W Bush meets Putin in June 2001 and declares he looked him in the eye and 'got a sense of his soul'. Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice recall their discomfort. But Rice, the only Bush adviser in the private talks, reveals that, three months before 9/11, Putin gave Bush a prophetic warning about Pakistan, Afghanistan and the Taliban. After 9/11, Putin describes how he convinced his shocked colleagues that Russia should align with the West. Sergei Ivanov, Russian's defence minister, tells how the Taliban secretly offered to join forces with Russia against America."

Or believes…

"Claims that the terror attacks of September 11, 2001 were orchestrated by US intelligence agencies are "complete nonsense," Prime Minister Vladimir Putin told attendees of a youth forum.

­"This is complete nonsense, it is impossible," Putin said on Monday, responding to a question posed by an attendee of the Seliger 2011 youth forum.

"To imagine that US intelligence services did it deliberately, with their own hands, is complete nonsense," the prime minister said. “Only people who do not understand the workings of security agencies can say that. It would be impossible to conceal it.”

Putin added that he could not imagine how "any of the current or former US leaders could have such an idea.""

That last is from one of your favourite sites:

http://rt.com/politics/9-11-putin-seliger-investigation-toronto-355/

Or is it your claim that Putin now has paranoid delusions that are infecting the 'net?

Here's a conspiracy theory for you.

End of WWII, the US (new born CIA and those in the know) start to get their hands on what was known and is still known as Yamashita's gold, located in a multitude of locations in the Philippines. Up until the 80's Marcos was in on it too.

Eventually it became known as a giant horde of stolen riches known as the ‘Black Eagle Trust’ which was used to fund a shadow American empire tucked under the meme of anti-communism.

At the end of the Cold War, a large number of ‘off-balance sheet’ securities were issued by banks such as UBS and Deutsche Bank against this wealth and funnelled into the USSR.

In September 1991, George H. W. Bush and Alan Greenspan, both Pilgrims Society members, financed $240 billion in illegal bonds to economically decimate the Soviet Union and bring Soviet oil and gas resources under the control of Western investors, backed by the Black Eagle Trust and supported later by Putin who for the right price purged certain oligarchs.

After the Soviet Union fell, the cabal in possession of these resources made plans to cycle them into the legal economy and cover-up the dirty deeds that they were associated with. The original 10 year Brady bonds, set to mature in September 2001, were destroyed in the attack on the World Trade Centre. The firm that held the securities was Cantor Fitzgerald, which suffered catastrophic losses including the death of every employee and loss of all, repeat, all of its paperwork. How convenient.

Under a suspension of regular rules by the SEC, the illicit bonds were cleared by the Bank of New York and added to the capital reserves of banks holding ‘Black Eagle’ gold including Chase, Citibank, Credit Suisse, HSBC, Deutsche Bank, and UBS. To obfuscate its trail, the money was quickly shifted into the mortgage market, where the demand for subprime loans would rise by $246 billion.

Just adds to the mystery and the bold evidence that clearly shows 9/11 was a complete inside (US/Zionist/NWO) job.

Don't believe me, do some research.

WMtrevor.Putin's actual words."To imagine that the US intelligence services did it deliberately,with their own hands,is complete nonsense." Putin has left the door open to other hands.ie he wants the US establishment to have an out ,so he like Israel can use the old divide and conquer methods to separate Israel from the USA.Putin is not stupid.The fact remains as why the USA ignored Putin's and many other leader's warnings that the 911 attacks were immenent.Putin did not name Muslims as the attackers.

Putin also knows that Israel has strong connections to the likes of the Rothschilds,JP Morgan,Goldman Sachs etc and they create via the US Federal Reserve most of the money for the US Govt to function.

Putin sees Israel as the USA's achilles heel.The election of Obama has been a big blow to Israel since they poured millions into the Romney campaign for no result.

There is a change of allegiance within the US Govt and I suspect the Military, but that will not necessarily mean a return to democracy or their constitution.

Yes,I don't trust Putin either.

How about adding this one too.

In 2007 six nuclear warheads were stolen from Minot Air Force Base in North Dakota. The moment they were stolen they disappeared from America’s nuclear inventory, these weapons were stolen, very little is more controlled, more secure, more restricted, more classified, than the nuclear arsenal of the US. Yet they remain missing to this day.

Recently key members of the military more loyal to Israel and Wall Street than the US, have been identified as planning a mutiny to take place after the 2012 presidential election.

Their task, upon seizing power, is to facilitate a massive terror attack inside the United States, possibly using a stolen nuclear weapon, declare martial law, and move troops into Iraq and to attack Iran with aid from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States.

Turkey is to attack Syria with aid from Israel and civil war between the Kurdish regional government and the national government in Baghdad is to begin with the US brokering a peace and re-establishing what a newly appointed “Republican President” would describe as the “Status of Forces Agreement”.

This real intent is to re-occupy Iraq and attack Iran. In the process neutralise the nuclear capability of Pakistan.

Did Petraeus really resign? Did Admiral Gaouette who was sent home because the Secretary of Defence found him unfit for command, both timed prior to, and just after an election really do something wrong, perhaps a false flag event!

Gaouette commanded nearly one third of the Naval and air combat forces in the Persian Gulf region. The decision was made based on a conversation with the Secretary of Defence who, at the end of the talk, believed Gaouette was part of a group of military officers who have been under suspicion for planning a “Seven Days in May” type overthrow of the US government if President Obama was re-elected.

Although partially based on conjecture, dozens of key officers face firing; hundreds are under investigation, all with direct ties to extremist elements in the Republican Party and the Israeli lobby.

Let history be the judge of what comes next?

Geoff of Perth.All these plays are based on power and nothing to do with allegiance to the US people or morality.Zibigniew Brezezinski is still a powerful force within US foreign policy decisions and he has been warning against an attack on Iran for a long time.

I think the Western Oligarchs are having a re-think and are trying to buy time so they can rebuild their economies.Their choice is stark.Either they follow Israel into oblivion via a nuke war or pull back from the edge and choose life.

That is completely spooky, James O'Neill.

>>Pericles: you manifestly live within your own fact free bubble that rational discussion with you is impossible. You clearly believe what you want to believe and regardless of what I or anybody else that relies on the evidence actually says does not make any difference.<<

That is almost word for word the advice I was going to give you! How weird is that?

There is however a substantial difference between evidence and conjecture. If the red particles had been nanothermite, for example, they would have been evidence. All the rest, however, remains purest conjecture.

9/11 conspiracy theories are a lot like religion. Just as Christians require a presupposition that there is a God, conspiracy theorists require a presupposition that there is a conspiracy, otherwise nothing fits. Once you have made that assumption, you are free to conjecture anything you like - Israel's involvement, rapacious landlords who demolish their own buildings for money, governments who want an excuse to go to war - absolutely anything stands for a motive, depending upon your socio-political leanings.

One of the biggest logical flaws in the 9/11 alternative scenarios, apart from the fact that that there are so many of them, is that they lack an identifiable, real-world motive. Even when you have settled upon your chosen motive - Israel/landlords/warmonger government etc. - the sheer scale of the operation that you have imagined simply cannot come together plausibly, in either means or opportunity. The logistics simply don't work.

The conspiracy theorist's cop-out is to call for another enquiry.

Problem is, they wouldn't believe that one either.

By definition, if it doesn't meet their pet theory, they will simply cry "cover-up", and start all over again.

Incidentally, you haven't mentioned which of the alternate-universe scenarios you subscribe to. Care to share?

And Arjay, this is an indication of how bereft of ideas you have become:

>>James O'Neill I suspect Pericles and his followers are of a Jewish background<<

Facts remain the same, Arjay, whatever the religion of the observer. We are not in the realms of quantum mechanics here.

I've read the article three times now, over several days. Apart from it being a whinge about the signal-to-noise ratio in the public space that is the internet, I am struggling to see the author's point. He resents seeing rumour and gossip on an equal footing with constructive and informative posts, but "... [doesn't] wish for any voices to be silenced.". Is there something else going on here?

Could it be that he is challenged by the very existence of what he is pleased to call 'conspiracy theory'? Challenged by the opportunity the internet gives for other minds and world-views to question evidence and reasoning leading to 'official versions' as to anything requiring public explanation? Given that he has substantially occupied his stage with such a large one (the 9/11 one), is it that he is challenged by the scale of questioning of what he has seen as the established order of things that is implicit in even entertaining some of the speculations surrounding this event?

By way of partial analogy, one of the slowly-emerging surprises as to the Nazi era extermination program and related war crimes was that as to how few, rather than how many, could be ultimately held as culpable, notwithstanding the numbers of victims that had been involved.

This very claimed conspiracy theory was accused of somehow defiling the memory of the victims of the 9/11 events in an OLO article discussion thread earlier this year. See: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=13784#238619 . That claim looked to me to be some sort of a defence mechanism against questioning the official line. I never got an answer as to how questioning what really happened defiled the memory of victims.

One of the great things about the internet as we have known it, has been the potential it offers the ordinary interested citizen for following the electronic paper trail that may later come to be shown as relevant to any event. For example: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11353#192294 . Perhaps that makes things difficult for those who might erstwhile have expected to 'control the message'.

For those like Pericles too lazy to see this site http://www.patriotsquestion 911.com/ lets look at a small sample of the thousands of professionals who question the official story of 911.

Major General Albert Stubbline.He was Commander General of army Intelligence from 1981-84.

Lt Col Robert Bowman PHD Director of Advanced Space Programs.PhD in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering.Robert Bowman has been at the forefront of the 911 truth movement.He is a man of enormous intellect and courage.

Gen Wesley Clarke.Former commanding General of NATO 1997-2001.

Capt Edgar Mitchell.BS Industrial Management.BS Aeronautical Engineering,Dr Of Science.Pilot and astronaut.

Col Geroge Nelson.Former US Airforces accident investigator.

Col Anne Wright US Army.Former US Diplomat.

We also see former Presidents and Prime ministers of countries around this planet who want a real investigation into 911.

Govts constantly lie to us.Julia Gillard is living breathing proof of this.

You know perfectly well, Arjay, that I have read every single site that you have pointed me towards.

>>For those like Pericles too lazy to see this site http://www.patriotsquestion 911.com/ lets look at a small sample of the thousands of professionals who question the official story of 911.<<

None is in the slightest bit convincing.

Robert Bowman believes that Dick Cheney was responsible.

"Asked if he could name a prime suspect who was the likely architect behind the attacks, Bowman stated, 'If I had to narrow it down to one person....I think my prime suspect would be Dick Cheney.'"

What he couldn't do, however, was to provide any evidence to back his opinion. And this is a man who was beaten by Donald Trump, of all people, in the 2000 California Primaries. Obviously, someone held in extremely high regard.

I think you may find that General Wesley Clark is no longer willing to be sucked into the conspiracy web - have a look at the wearechange interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS8FBJtFN3s&list=UUhwwoeOZ3EJPobW83dgQfAg&index=5&feature=plcp

Capt. Mitchell? Oh, this guy:

"Mitchell claimed the Roswell crash was real and that aliens have contacted humans several times, but that governments have hidden the truth for 60 years stating, 'I happen to have been privileged enough to be in on the fact that we’ve been visited on this planet, and the UFO phenomenon is real.'"

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/08/astronaut-edgar-mitchell-confesses-ufos-exist-2458040.html

Col George Nelson, the "pod" man.

"Underneath the fuselage, installed across the starboard aircraft wing root, is a visible, large piece of equipment that most viewers have called a 'Pod'"

http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/ArticlesNelson13March2006.html

Hmmmm. A pod. Wonder what that was for. And who put it there. And where those planes actually came from in the first place, if they weren't the ones we thought they were.

Col Anne Wright is a very nice person, but has no evidence to offer, just her credentials as an anti-war campaigner. Bless.

I notice that you don't go into any detail about those "former Presidents and Prime ministers of countries around this planet", or discuss their possible motives.

Probably just as well.

Gen Wesley Clarke is running scared.Personally the truth has no future for him.

No Presidents here? Not looking really hard Pericles. http://patriotsquestion911.com/

Francesco Cossiga.Pres of Italy 1985-92.

Vladmir Putin.Pres Russia.Current.

Gen Hosni Mubarak.Pres Egypt 1981.

Dr Mahathir Mohamad.Prime Minister Malaysia 1981-2003

Hugo Chavez Current Pres Venezuela.Current.

Asif Ali Zardari Pres Pakistan 2008.

Gen Musharraf Pres Pakistan 2001-08.

There are many more members of Govt past and present listed including Douglas Everingham Aust House of Reps 1967-75 and 1977-84.

Notice that most of the people on this site are retired because no one has future in the West telling the truth about 911.

Ah, but I did look, Arjay

>>No Presidents here? Not looking really hard Pericles<<

I simply noted that you didn't go into any detail about who they were. For very good reason, as you now make clear.

Poor old President Cossiga. He was never particularly stable, but senility eventually overtook him, I'm afraid. As well as announcing that 9/11 was a joint Mossad/CIA operation, he further claimed that one of Osama bin Laden's videotapes was produced in Milan by Silvio Berlusconi's Mediaset company.

A very sad story.

And what a motley crew are the rest that you parade before us! Putin, Chavez, Musharraf... every one an upright citizen of the world, with no axe to grind, and absolutely no animosity to the West at all. (That was sarcasm, in case you failed to spot it).

And what's this I see?

>>Notice that most of the people on this site are retired because no one has future in the West telling the truth about 911.<<

The classic conspiracy-nut defence: no-one is saying anything, because they know only too well, that they will be hunted down and exterminated by the evil warlords who control all our lives.

And anyone who says differently must by definition be on the payroll of those evil international banksters, who provide the warlords with the money to do their wicked deeds.

Paranoid delusions, indeed.

I had such high expectations of your expert witnesses, Arjay... so I thought I'd look at Mahathir's evidence... 'cause, like, he's a Doctor and everything!

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2011/09/11/mahathir-911-not-work-of-muslims/

“Bush lied about Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction… If they can lie so as to kill Iraqis, Afghans and American soldiers, it is not unthinkable for Bush & Co to lie about who was responsible for 9/11,” the 86-year-old wrote in his blog Friday.

Listing out reasons in line with a conspiracy theory that the US government was behind the attacks, he wrote the Twin Towers in New York “came down nicely upon themselves”.

“I believe Arab Muslims are angry enough to sacrifice their lives and become suicide bombers.

“But they or their handlers do not strike me as capable of planning and strategising such attacks so as to maximise the damage to the enemy,” he said.

What? That's it?

Politicians lie - said with no apparent sense of irony that he's a politician - total ignorance of the physics of intertia and racist opinion of Arabs?

You had given us to expect so much more, Arjay, and yet as always... disappointment.

...inertia...

Array: there is always a potential problem in relying on the endorsements of any given individuals because those who refuse to confront the evidence will always find some earlier quotation to discredit the person upon whom you rely.

It is better to stick with the scientific evidence and other evidence that is incontrovertible. The destruction of WTC towers 1, 2 and 7 defy the laws of physics. Buildings cannot fall at free fall speed unless the obstacles to their descent are removed in advance, as Shyam Sunder of NIST admitted. The only way obstacles can be removed is by the use of explosives. These issues have been discussed in a number of peer reviewed scientific journals. Not a single article has been published Ina scientific peer reviewed journal that provides an alternative explanation.

Another good illustration is the alleged use of cell phones calls from the planes. The FBI in the Moussaui trial said those calls did not happen. How then to explain the alleged conversations between Barbara Olsen and her husband? Those calls are the sole source of the Arabs with box utters myth perpetuate by the 9/11 Commission. If the FBI denies they happened then they mustn have been faked. What motive would the alleged hijackers have for faking this and many other calls? None that is consistent with the official conspiracy theory.

Then there is a host of other evidence consistent with this being a job carried out with at the least official complicity. For example the stand down of the air force; the suppression of evidence; Operation Able Danger; etc etc. The best single overview of all the troubling questions is Grifin's book The New Pearl Harbor Revisited. The issues he raises plus the scientific and admitted evidence is the best rebuttal if provocateurs such as Pericles who prefer straw men arguments to confronting the very real questions.

But there's absolutely nothing new here, James O'Neill.

>>The issues he raises plus the scientific and admitted evidence is the best rebuttal if provocateurs such as Pericles who prefer straw men arguments to confronting the very real questions.<<

It is just the same fairy-stories all over again.

Let me suggest this to you. Why don't you propose just one single plausible alternative scenario, in which the requisite amount of explosive can be placed, and the explosion(s) initiated in a manner that agrees with the facts we know - I presume you are prepared to accept that planes flew into the WTC... if not, then there would be a few more questions for you to answer.

Forget for a moment who did it, or why. Just concentrate on the scale of the operation that you propose, and the manner in which it might have been carried out.

No cheating. No waving your arms about saying it was the CIA, or Mossad or Dick Cheney. Just concentrate your mind on the logistics of what would be involved in making it happen.

Then as an afterthought, ask yourself where the people who carried it out are now.

James O'Neill.Pericles knows the truth.He is up on all the latest events like the movie in production 'September Morn.'He could well be a paid agent of dis-information because he follows my comments like a hound dog.If it is all BS why bother commenting?

I agree on using the science but there are many who cannot grasp it.The best site for proving our point is http://debunking911.com/ Their lead picture is of the South Tower pitching at 22 deg.This was NIST's pile driver that crushed the lower floors.The top third of the South Tower should have continued in that vector and fallen over intact.

Instead the top third as video reveals, explodes into dust particles.The energy from this pile driver of NIST could not exert any sizable forces on the lower floors since it had changed direction and soon after exploded into dust.What sort of energy pulverises solid steel and concrete? Jet Fuel fires burn to only half the temps to melt steel yet there is ample video footage showing molten steel pouring from the sides of the towers and described by firemen "flowing like lava down the channel ways."

The morons who are debunking 911 truthers cannot even get their lead picture right.It proves our point.

I've met Prof Niels Harrett ,Prof Steven Jones and our Dr Frank Legge.They with 7 other scientists put out a peer reviewed paper that has not been disputed.That explosive which melted steel and pulverised concrete was Nano-thermite and only the Military had the technology to make it.Neils said that very little was known about it back in 2003.

As for the logistics of getting it into the towers.Bush's brother owned the security company with the contract for this complex and they were also doing extensive renovations on the elevators.Work was been done when the day workers were gone.

A lot of people have deep suspicions now but also many think that 10 yrs on, it does not really matter.We know that it is of the upmost importance.That's why I still donate to http://www.ae911truth.org/

Alas, my cover is blown.

>>He could well be a paid agent of dis-information because he follows my comments like a hound dog.If it is all BS why bother commenting?<<

What on earth shall I do now?

Having dedicated my life, for so long, to obfuscate every piece of the deadly incriminating evidence that Arjay has been promulgating all these years - much to the discomfort of the Military Industrial Complex of International Banksters Bent on Creating the New World Order - I have clearly failed in my mission.

Obviously, the MICOIBBOCTNWO, as they are known in the most intimate of government circles, have no more use for me. I expect my pink slip will be in the mail, with the postmark on the envelope artfully smudged so it can't be traced back to them. They are so cunning like that, you wouldn't believe.

I will, I suppose, have to join all those elevator mechanics, sunning themselves on that tropical paradise, safe from the temptation to contact the press and earn themselves many millions for blowing the whistle... not that it would be any use of course, the MSM are all in on it as well. That's why you can only find this information on tiny blogs, bravely maintained by fearless folk, who know that they will eventually get that 3a.m knock on the door - but they Don't Care...

Fortunately, there are still many millions of us on the MICOIBBOCTNWO payroll, keeping an eye on these dedicated sleuther-truthers. We have to be eternally vigilant. Keeping a secret this big is no easy task.

Still, you never know, they might decide to keep me on. But I bet they will use this as an excuse to cut my pay. Even evil international banksters have to watch the bottom line.

But just before I go...

>>As for the logistics of getting it into the towers.Bush's brother owned the security company with the contract for this complex and they were also doing extensive renovations on the elevators.<<

Hah!

That's exactly what we wanted you to believe...

Notice how Pericles cannot engage in debate on the science of freefall destruction due to the impossibility of fire melting steel columns and NIST's theory of sequential floor collapse due to pile driver that self destructs before any impact is evident.Note that NIST is the US National Institute for Standards and Technology.

Perhaps Pericles,the science is beyond you and thus should stick to your best talents of obsfuscation and deception.

Arjay: I agree with what you say in your last two posts. I also know Harrit, Jones and Legge personally and admire their dedication to determine the truth, often in the face of obscurantist rantings of some of the above commenters. I also follow the 911blogger site which is a fantastic resource for learning more about the science. I also agree that the official conspiracy theory fails to explain what some have called the "energy gap". Fire and gravity do not account for the energy required to pulverize concrete, eject huge steel beams 200 meters, melt steel etc. the only reservation I have is that thermite cannot explain the explosive force required. It can certainly melt steel etc, but that is not a sufficient explanation. Some other force was necessary and there is some useful research going on about that at present. As to how the logistics were managed, that hoary chestnut has been explained in detail in Griffin's book mentioned above.

James,if you were at the Mechanical School of Arts in Sydney 2010,when Niels Harritt did his address on Nano Thermite,I probably took your donation at the front desk.

Gordon Duff of http://veteranstoday.com/ supports your theory on another explosive force.Duff tries to discount nano themite entirely but he is wrong in my view.Other explosives are a distinct possibility but nano themite was definitely a contributing factor.

Prof Chris Busby has done research on Fullajah in Iraq .Busby found in the analysis of women's hair that it was not just Depleted Uranium that caused serious birth defects in that city.

Busby has found evidence of enriched Uranium which is not from the DU source.He suggests a new form of mini nuke,perhaps a neutron bomb which NATO is now using to assert their authority.

There are reports of explosions happening underground before the planes hit in 911,but we all need to stick to the science and factural observations.

Cheers ,Ross Johnson.

Cheers Ross. Yes, I was at that meeting and have also met Haririt in Copenhagen. I am familiar with Gordon Duff's website and his claims about mini-nukes. I find it very interesting but frankly do not have the expertise to form an opinion. Certainly conventional explosives and nano-thermite do not of themselves account for the observed effects.

On the topic of paranoia, Arjay, it is not a good idea to let the CIA/Mossad New World Order dudes know your real name. If it took me nearly four minutes to use this information to discover your street address, think how much more quickly the evil multinational banksters could do it. And what they might say when they do the 3a.m. door-knock...

Do you still have that boat parked in your driveway, by the way?

Pericles I've been visited by the AFP twice in trying to warn me off revealing this evidence.I think the CIA and Mossad know who I am.Are you trying to scare us? If so for what reason?

I think the freedom of humanity and true democracy is more important than life itself.Existing in slavery is not living.

>>I think the CIA and Mossad know who I am.<<

I think you have delusions of grandeur to go with your acute paranoia if you believe the CIA and Mossad give a rat's about you and your nutjobbery. Sorry to burst your bubble but nobody is going to take harmless loonies rehashing amusing but cliched conspiracy theories over the internet as a credible threat to national security. In order to be considered a threat to national security I think you have to do a bit more than post internet comments that make anybody with a teaspoon of common sense sh!t bricks laughing.

About the only way I can see the CIA taking an interest in you is if some of your nutjobbery had enough buzzwords to draw the attention of their computer programs - which is quite likely - and when viewed by a human he naturally shat bricks laughing and started following your internet antics in his spare time because they were so amusing. It's the sort of thing I'd do if I worked for the CIA.

Paranoia and delusions of grandeur are two common behaviors exhibited by bipolar sufferers when they are manic. Have you ever experienced severe depression Arjay? If the answer is yes you may be suffering from bipolar disorder. Might want to get yourself checked out.

Cheers,

Tony

How intriguing, Arjay.

>>Pericles I've been visited by the AFP twice in trying to warn me off revealing this evidence<<

This obviously means that the AFP are also part of the conspiracy. As well as the CIA, Mossad, and all those evil multinational banksters...

Perhaps it might occur to you one day that keeping something like this under wraps for so many years, when so many people appear to know about it, is quite literally impossible. Those cops who knocked on your door were on, what, eighty grand a year? And how much, do you think, Al Jazeera would pay for the story? Or the Teheran Times?

Nah. The cops were probably wondering about your water usage, and all those HID lights in your attic...