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The Forum > Article Comments > Xenophon: attack the church - but not the man > Comments

Xenophon: attack the church - but not the man : Comments

By Brian Holden, published 19/9/2011

Xenophon doesnít realise that the church is in a fight for survival.

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"Xenophon seems not to realise that the churchís behaviour is a desperate tactic in what it sees as a fight for survival. It will not change its 1700 year-old core policies, and it still has a few years left in it. All the Senator will achieve is to make one manís life more miserable."

If Xenophon's crusade makes even one mother or father think twice before leaving their child in the hands of a priest, then it has demonstrated its worth. It doesn't matter that the Catholic Church is collapsing under its dogma: what matters is to get the innocents away and minimise the damage that it does as it comes down.
Posted by Jon J, Monday, 19 September 2011 7:03:37 AM
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Brian's shakey belief in the evolution myth is actually far more likely to dissappear than the church of the Lord Jesus Christ. His arrogant assumption that biology supports evolution is laughable. His quoting of Darwin who has been proven wrong many times over just shows the false premise he comes from. Every honest scientist knows evolution is but fantasy. Oh that's right 'the science is settled'Where have I heard that arrogance before?
Posted by runner, Monday, 19 September 2011 7:23:50 AM
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It's hard to think of the term 'Catholic Church' without associating it with child abuse, so successful has been the media's sustained attack.

It's pathetic that any government can't propose a member of the Church for any responsible position without howls of derision by the Victim Lobby.

Of course the Xenophon case has nothing to do with child abuse. Both parties were men. Xenophon named the alleged perpetrator without evidence, without testimony, without regard for the investigation by the Church and without the permission of the victim.

This is extraordinary stuff and worth the harshest condemnation by the public and the Senate Privilege's Committee.
Posted by Cheryl, Monday, 19 September 2011 8:18:34 AM
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Brian:

...Yours is a noble argument befitting for the benefit of the parlous reputation that trudges along behind the catholic priesthood. Your argument which postulates the value of good works outweighing the negative value of sin, as urgent and timely it may be, is unsustainable and hangs on the thread of logic which states that all criminals in society be forgiven for their crimes, based on the strength of previous good works and social contributions.

... Pedophilia is largely active throughout all society and cannot be excused by implication towards a pathology, and thankfully is not. What can be done though is to include in mitigating circumstances when judging the guilty, such as you highlighted, which stem from the uniqueness of the environment associated with the priesthood: The prime circumstance without doubt, is the trust in, and association of closeness, priests enjoy in the environs of children associated with pastoral care, acting as a priest.

...A flimsy argument Brian, but well written and an enjoyable read.
Posted by diver dan, Monday, 19 September 2011 8:44:31 AM
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What "evidence" can there be of allegations of rape that occurred over 40 years ago? Xenophon acted to protect the community from a priest where the Catholic Church had failed to act. He wrote an article for the Sunday Mail yesterday. Quotes from it are:

"In any event, it looks as though I could be facing, following complaints, a Senate Privileges Committee Inquiry. I'd welcome such an inquiry, because at least the Senate Committee processes are fair, speedy and transparent - unlike the way John Hepworth's complaints have been handled.

...I was even more surprised by claims by Archbishop Philip Wilson that the priest had not been stood down because the allegations concerned the rape of an adult, not the rape of a child.

An allegation of any kind of rape should be enough to warrant a serious investigation and the standing down pending the investigation. My preference is for anyone with information about any abuse to take it to the police, but John Hepworth wanted the church to deal with his claims internally, and that has to be respected.

But too many religious organisations seem to have drawn some comfort from the mistaken belief that they somehow control the process. That has to change.

Sexual abuse flourishes because people keep secrets they shouldn't keep.

Would I do it again? If the circumstances were the same, absolutely.

And I can't help thinking if this is how the Catholic Church in Adelaide deals with an Archbishop, Heaven help the rest of us."

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/ipad/xenophon-i-would-do-it-again/story-fn6br25t-1226139806916
Posted by michael_in_adelaide, Monday, 19 September 2011 9:23:14 AM
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To, "What are the chances of the Vatican accepting the principle of evolution by natural selection? There is no chance - as at no point in the millions of gradual steps in the evolution of humans can God have suddenly inserted the soul into a fertilised human egg deserving of eternal reward or punishment", the only possible response is, "Exactly!"

As the website "Catholic Answers" explains (with both Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur from 2004):

"Concerning human evolution, the Church has a more definite teaching. It allows for the possibility that manís body developed from previous biological forms, under Godís guidance, but it insists on the special creation of his soul. Pope Pius XII declared that "the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matteró[but] the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God" (Pius XII, Humani Generis 36). So whether the human body was specially created or developed, we are required to hold as a matter of Catholic faith that the human soul is specially created; it did not evolve, and it is not inherited from our parents, as our bodies are."

Two items on the Vatican's "to do" list must be: first, to determine at which point in the ascent of man Adam and Eve existed ó maybe homo habilis ó and to change their depiction appropriately; and second, to engage with the certainty that no matter when it was, the first person to have been fitted out with a soul would have had soulless parents with no prospect of enjoying eternity in the company of their children.

Probably, Runner's is the only possible response.
Posted by GlenC, Monday, 19 September 2011 9:26:04 AM
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