The Forum > Article Comments > Tunisia… Egypt… Libya… Let's look closer to home > Comments
Tunisia… Egypt… Libya… Let's look closer to home : Comments
By Daniel Scoullar, published 30/3/2011We have state sponsored violence and political exclusion much closer to home than one might realise.
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Posted by rexw, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 8:28:20 AM
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Let me correct some misinformation and incorrect statements in this article:
1) The governors and district chiefs, as well as most members of the regional Parliament in Papua and West Papua provinces are ethnically native Papuans. 2) Papua is just the same like any other provinces in Indonesia. There is no special law that gave military more power over this area, their powers are just the same like in any other province. 3) The "genitalia" case was a justified response to a murderous campaign by armed barbaric separatists who murdered 13 innocent Indonesians (both Papuans and non-Papuans) during 2009 to early 2010 in the Puncak Jaya district. 4) After the short military and police operation, there has been no attacks or killings for more than one year in this area. Hence, the military operation is successful and justified. 5) Indonesia is a big fish country, the 15th largest economy in the world and the fourth largest population in the world. It has 21 billionaires, and President Obama lived here during childhood. There are more middle class people in Indonesia than the entire population of Australia. Hence, USA manages relationship with Indonesia directly and actively. USA does not involve Australia in its Indonesian relationship since Indonesia is in a different league compared with puny and unimportant Australia. 6) To satisfy Australia's wet dreams of becoming a "mini regional superpower", I think USA are willing to sub-contract mini and unimportant countries like Solomon Islands or PNG to Australia LOL. Does having some sort "hegemony" over these "countries" satisfy the "ego" of Australians? LOL Posted by Proud to be Indonesian, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 4:06:31 PM
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Proud to be Indonesian, and why not.
Although it is surprising the values you apply for summarising your country....billionaires; middle class numbers as high as Australia's population..... I would hope so with a population of 240 billion; President Obama having lived there, wow. What you didn’t mention was Australia’s world rating of 6 for Quality of Life. Even the USA, Obama’s new home, rates at 13 and Indonesia at 71. Must mean something, surely, billionaires notwithstanding. The criteria being health, family life, community life, material well being, political stability and security, climate and geography, job security, political freedom and gender equality. I may have forgotten education as well. We do give that a high priority. So there must be some things that are different. Still doesn’t mean that your policy to Papuans is right and fair and humane, does it. You are really the mini-superpower with the power of life and death over a whole people but you should remember the UN edict "Indigenous peoples have the right to determine and develop their priorities”. Of course you are wrong also in your assessment that Australia has ambitions to be a mini regional superpower. However, we have fought above our weight on many occasions, World Wars and on. Yes, a lot of that may have been due to the old ‘mother country’, the once British Empire, or currently the need for Australia to be seen as a “mate” of the US, kicking a football with that ex-resident of Indonesia, Obama. But ou are welcome to him. Respectfully, you must realise that a person like Ms Gillard wouldn’t know the location of Indonesia, just somewhere north of Cape York, over the water, somehere. She does know other places like Israel though, loves the place and jumps through hoops for the Melbourne chapter. So if Indonesia is such a low priority for this government it is because Christmas Island is taking up so much time right now. But we did give you a big hand in the Aceh disaster. Remember? As for “puny and unimportant Australia". We like it that way. Posted by rexw, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 8:17:18 PM
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Proud to be indonesian
I don't know what figures your using but the IMF rankings have Australia as the 13th Largest Economy by GDP, 5 Five places higher than indonesia, Our economy is almost twice the size of indonesia's.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29 If you want to compare GDP per capita, Australia is 6th, whilst indonesia is 109th. Put another way, we are 25 times wealthier per capita than indonesia. Average GDP per person in Indonesia is under 3000 dollars. The Congo, Swaziland and ElSalvador do better. http://en.wikipedia.org wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita At current growth rates, Indonesia might pass Australia in terms of Total GDP in 30 years, all going well. Hardly a stunning performance from a country with nearly 10 times the population. Posted by PaulL, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 8:29:00 PM
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Rex, we also fought to make sure communists didn't ever get to run this country.
I hear Cuba is lovely this time of year, and I hear they make the right noises about the US and Israel. Surely the general public has had its say on Israel after the green candidate made it a state issue during the NSW election. She was of course resoundingly beaten, in a defeat which was snatched from the jaws of victory. The Israel/Palestine is a complex issue. Regardless of the rights or wrongs, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah are terrorist organisations and their morally bankrupt tactics have never been more clearly outlined than they are currently, with waves of mostly non violent protests across the middle east. Posted by PaulL, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 9:23:05 PM
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@rexw:
"What you didn’t mention was Australia’s world rating of 6 for Quality of Life. Even the USA, Obama’s new home, rates at 13 and Indonesia at 71. Must mean something, surely, billionaires notwithstanding. The criteria being health, family life, community life, material well being, political stability and security, climate and geography, job security, political freedom and gender equality. I may have forgotten education as well. We do give that a high priority." No wonder, Australia was basically an implant of Britain in terms of population and capital, which was the richest country in the world due to its colonial empire which depended on exploitation of half the world's population. Meanwhile, Indonesia for centuries was a colony of Netherlands which robbed our country and remit the added value of Indonesian labourers back to Europe, while investing almost nothing to the indigenous population. Since independence, Indonesia have consistently improved the livelihood of its people to make-up for the lost centuries of colonialism. Notwithstanding the destructive effects of Dutch colonialists (who fought tooth and nail to maintain us under their rule), and the communists and radical Islamist elements of our population. Given these challenges which Australia did not face, Indonesia have done a commendable job in improving the lives of Indonesians (literacy rate more than 90% from 5% in 1945, life expectancy up to 70 years from 35 years in 1945, etc). "You are really the mini-superpower with the power of life and death over a whole people" Nah, Indonesia is merely exercising legal rights over its sovereign territory. This right was won by ultimate sacrifice by thousands of Indonesians during war of independence vs the Dutch (1945-1949). "Of course you are wrong also in your assessment that Australia has ambitions to be a mini regional superpower." LOL just a couple of hours ago you want Australia to have "tropical military bases" like USA the superpower, but now you've changed your mind? Posted by Proud to be Indonesian, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 9:59:49 PM
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Hence the Indonesian government is still able to run riot in that part of the world , confident that there will be little interest in the torture and cruelty handed out to the local peoples.
It is of far greater interest to the likes of Gillard and Rudd before her and certainly Howard, the "man of steel", rusted somewhat these days, to comply to the demands of the US and actively pursue subservient behaviour and death for our young soldiers in far away places, none of which have any bearing on our security or well-being, just a sycophantic following of the world's #1 terrorist, America, off again on another rampage in Libya.
So, Gillard has a foreign policy that sees any activity in the region as not to her liking. She is even unable to manage an illegal boat people problem on our own territory let alone be pro-active in assisting with a solution for Papua..
Our needs are in this area, as the junction between the Pacific and the Indian Oceans and the value we could render to this part of the world could be unique. We could tailor our military purchases to suit the needs of coastal protection, aircraft that made us secure in our northern regions and bases in the tropics to give us the flexibility to address any problem in this area. However,. that is seen to be of little value to the US, having a member of ANZUS doing its own thing, under its own control and acting in its own interests. Far better for the US to see Australia conforming to their military plans for total hegemony in the whole world..
So the inhumane treatment of Papuans will hardly get any recognition from this feckless government made up of self-serving Labor machine zombies with their own comfortable seats as their only interest or motivation.
So it will always be.