In a progressive move the Independent MP Monique Ryan supported by the Greens, intends to introduce a private members bill before the parliament which would give voting rights to 16 and 17 year old's. A New Zealand court ruling has found the current voting age there of 18 is discriminatory, there is now every likelihood that a debate on the subject will take place in the New Zealand parliament shortly. Austria, Scotland and Wales along with many other countries have already given the vote to those aged 16 and 17. The fact many young people work, pay taxes, drive motor vehicles and have babies suggests why shouldn't they also vote.

"The Greens MP Stephen Bates, the party’s youth spokesperson, told Guardian Australia he welcomed “support across the crossbench” for lowering the voting age. He noted the New Zealand decision had “mobilised a lot of people” in Australia."

There is a possibility Labor would also support the move. Maybe not the Liberals and Nationals, as they hardly get a vote from the Millennials and those aged younger now. Its unlikely 16 and 17 year old's would even consider voting Coalition or for those of their ilk, as they are perceived by young people as totally out of touch. But the right wing parties can take comfort in the knowledge that they have exclusively nailed the supercentenarian vote in this country, all 23 of them, although I'm not sure how many are still living and possibly voting, 2 me thinks.

This is another Green obsession to force society even further to the infantile Left.

Though the brain may be done growing in size by the teen years, it’s not done developing and maturing. The prefrontal cortex, which is responsible for skills like planning, prioritization, and impulse control, may not finish developing until the mid- to late-20s.

In the case of some OLO posters, the brain has still not developed fully, and is obviously never going to.

The voting age should be raised to at least 25.

Infantile and more manageable. Look how the climate loonies have managed and exploited that Swedish kid.

ttbn, Aldi's have a special on "prefrontal cortex's" this week, see if you can pick yourself up one, but then where would you put it, its needs the rest of a brain to function... humm I see a problem for you.

"In the case of some OLO posters, the brain has still not developed fully, and is obviously never going to." I have to agree with you ttbn, with our band of forum octogenarian the seed was planted at birth, but some 80 years on its failed to germinate....maybe it never will. I wont ask you what you think until you've done your Aldi shopping.

I would see no problem with my young granddaughter voting, she has more political savvy than many on the forum.

Dear Paul,

Pro. Faith Gordon of ANU points out that -

"You can apply to join the defence forces at 16.
You can have sexual intercourse legally at 17. And you
can be charged with criminal offences, but you can't
vote?"

Youn people already make a host of important contributions
to socio-economic and political activities and have many
responsibilities in society. If they do so much why
don't they deserve the basic right to vote?

You have to be 17 before you can join the military services, you can apply before that.

The same stuff was reeled off prior to the voting age being lowered to 18. The fact remains, the brain is not fully developed before the age of 25, and there are a hell of a lot of important skills and emotions missing before then.

What will be next? Vote after weaning? When they've passed toilet training?

"When they've passed toilet training?"

Well one of the main arguments for lowering the age to 18 was that 18 yr olds could be forced to fight and die due to government policy and therefore they have a right to determine that policy.

Foetuses also die due to government policy. I say we lower the voting age to negative 1. If the dead can vote Green, why not the not-yet-born.

It's time to rid the environment of the Greens !

Actually, the military age whine is bullshite. There is no compulsion for anyone at all to join the military. It was OK to use the excuse when MALES ONLY could be conscripted during the Vietnam war. Even then, being 18 didn't mean that people were ready to vote, and there was no reason to allow teenage females to vote: they weren't forced into military service.

There is absolutely no sane reason to allow 16 year olds to vote. It is only the Leftists who want it, because they know kids are still stupid enough to fall for the Marxist advertising.

I wonder why the left in NZ are suddenly pushing this 'idea'?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/05/support-for-jacinda-ardern-and-nz-labour-sinks-to-lowest-since-2017-poll-shows

They are of coarse doing it for purely noble reasons. Nothing to do with falling support, no sireee.

I wonder why the Right are pushing against lowering
the Voting Age to 16? What are they afraid of and why
is this initiative being looked at as a Labor Party
and "Green Extremist" initiative? Assoc. Prof. Faith
Gordon from ANU says that young people are wrongly
stereotyped as lacking political and moral judgement.
She says that these stereotypes are not grounded in any
credible evidence and are due to misrepresentation in the
media.

Apparently this legislation would be consistent with moves
in many jurisdictions around the world to reduce the
voting age and with human rights law.

A large number of countries including Austria, Estonia,
Istael, Malta, to just name a few have reduced the voting
age to 17 or in some to 16.

If this was to happen in Australia it will provide youth
participation and acknowledge their right to be heard
in matters affecting their lives. Perhaps that's what the
nay-sayers are afraid of? Again a case of fear and losing
what they think they have. Just as with giving our
Indigenous people a Voice to Parliament.

Thankfully the nay-sayers are becoming a minority and will become
even more so if young people are given the right to have their
say.

It seems to me the voting age should coincide with the age an adult assumes legal responsibility for his life.
That is when he should take on some responsibility for his community as well?
My view is that the present 18 years is too low: twenty plus would be better.
Higher education and awareness is not a substitute for the wisdom gained by those few extra years.
I see that in Queensland there is a move to raise the age of criminal responsibility.
A wise move?
Is it time to stop the downward trend in other areas too?
Or will we see young children of kindergarten age lining up at polling booths?
And worse still, occupying cells at the local police station?
For goodness sake let us start being realistic.
Children need to grow up first, and complete their 'childhood apprenticeship', before taking on the world.
We don't let partly qualified persons do any job requiring a fully qualified person, do we?
Would you allow first year medical students to perform complicated operations on you or your friends?
So, just for once, let us be very realistic?

PAUL1405...

And I'd have no problem at all, with your young grand-daughter being able to vote - Just as long as it's not you, PAUL1405. Our Parliament is already overflowing with those noisy elements of the far left, a horde to whom you belong, and who're set upon, trying to destroy the few values we still have remaining in this forsaken nation of ours. Perhaps you could try NZ, the home of 'toothy' Jacinta ARDERN, I'm sure she'd welcome someone with your impeccable qualities. You know, intrepidity, courage and pluck.

Age is no indication of wisdom and maturity.

The right to vote ought to be determined by a test, to prove that the person understands the full implications of their vote and can do so responsibly and independently.

The test should include both intellectual and emotional components, must not be politically biased and its difficulty level should be around high-school year 12, but if a three-year-old is able to pass it, then why not?

One more point: since a child's vote could potentially adversely affect their parents, once a child (of any age) has proven their maturity and votes, his/her parents are no longer obliged to keep him/her at their home and take care of him/her.

Hi ttbn,

You make a good point about cognitive development and voting, having sex, paying taxes, having babies and doing military service. Therefore should we not also consider disenfranchising those suffering from cognitive degeneration, those old farts who can't get it up, pay no tax, babies sit only on their knee, and the army don't want them. Should voting be limited to 16 to 79?

Dear o sung wu,

Personally I'm not in favour of lowering the voting age to 16, nor is my granddaughter. She believes many of her friends are not interested in politics to any great extent and are not clamouring to vote, so why the bother.

If the parliament is; "overflowing with those noisy elements of the far left" which seems to be egregious to you then it is for no other reason than they have been democratically elected. Our democratic process seems to be at odds with your belief that voting should be limited to those who would vote in favour of those acceptable to you, thus no vote for me. That's not democracy, I have no problem with the likes of Pauline Hanson sitting in the parliament, I may disagree with much of what she says and believes, but she got the votes, and so be it. If you don't like the far left, then why not get out there and beat the drum for the far right, or those you support.

BTW; My granddaughter told me if she had voted in the last Federal election it would have been for Labor.

Left whingers like the village idiot don't give a crap about the rights of minors under 18, they only reason is that they believe that they can be manipulated into voting Labor or greens.

Neuroscience is clear that an individual's ability to evaluate risk and reward is not complete until about 25 years old, and the age of majority was originally 21 years old. This was dropped to 18 only when boys of 18 were being sent to fight and die at war, yet were neither able to vote nor drink and this was then defined as the age of majority.

Anyone under 18 is not considered sufficiently mature enough to get married without permission, sign a contract etc. So why are they sufficiently mature to vote?

If the ability to reason isn't the main factor how low can we go? People can have babies at 12 or even 13 should they vote. Or is a fetal heart beat sufficient?

Wrong again Shonky,

"This was dropped to 18 only when boys of 18 were being sent to fight and die at war, yet were neither able to vote nor drink and this was then defined as the age of majority."

Conscription was at the age of 20, the voting age was lowered from 21 to 18 by the Whitlam government's amendment to the Commonwealth Electoral Act in 1973, 18 year olds voted for the first time in a Federal election in 1975. Conscription was abolished by Whitlam in December 1972. The Tories were sending conscripts to die in Vietnam, but steadfastly refused them the vote.

As I said above, "It is only the Leftists who want it, because they know kids are still stupid enough to fall for the Marxist advertising". Shadowminiser has seconded that, as has a poll in South Australia that gave the idea a big thumbs down.

Correction, 18 year old's voted in their first Federal election May 1974.

Much of the opposition to reduce the voting age as we can
see depends on ageism and the flawed idea that young people
lack sufficient moral judgement, cognitive ability or life
experience to vote responsibly.

This has been proven to be BS. However it's due to the fact that
as with the Voice to Parliament - some people are scared of
losing what they think they have. And are against any changes.
And this is not confined only to certain political parties.
More needs to be done with providing information and not
allowing misinformation to take hold.

There's plenty of research showing that 16 year olds do have
sufficient ethical and cognitive capacities to form
political judgements.

As stated earlier we already know that at 16 you can do paid
work, pay tax, enlist in the military, drive a car, consent to
confidential health care and be charged with criminal offences.

Democracies have always been strengthened when more people are
allowed to vote. It is totalitarian regimes that benefit from
controlling everything. At the same time lowering the voting
ages acknowledges the national and global crises that young
people are experiencing and will inherit.

Supporting the vote for young people who, by definition have the
greatest at stake in the political process is the least
that older generations can do to redress this unbalance.

HI Foxy,

I must say at 16 I was political, very interested in the issues of the day, war, peace, disarmament, nuclear proliferation, world poverty, rights of workers etc. I joined the Labor Party, only to resign some years later in disgust. My father was very political and pro Labor, as a young bloke he sided with NSW Premier Jack Lang in opposition to the mainstream ALP, which brought about an early split in the party.

I completely agree that the voting age should be lowered to 16, after all 16 year olds are educated and responsible people and I’m sure that the other advocates for lowering the voting age will agree with me that the age to get a full firearm licence should be reduced from 18 t0 16, after all why should politically aware people be excluded simply because of age?
The same should apply to full driver’s licences, marriage, bank loans, adoptions, mortgages etc.
But unfortunately it does not 16 year olds are discriminated against.

Dear Paul,

I was the exact opposite. I lived in a conservative
bubble and was not in the slightest bit interested
in politics until after I got married and we went
to the United States. Things changed whilst I was
over there.

I think it's stupid.
16 or 17 years olds don't have the life experience or intelligence to make informed decisions.

But you know what, since voting doesn't even matter anyway...
- The only choice is whether or not we get screwed by this party, or by that party.
I'm willing to go along with it, on conditions.

Let the moron kids vote for more of your climate cult crap that you indoctrinate them with from the moment they start school.
It's not like the people who disagreed ever had any choice anyway.

But you must be prepared to treat them like adults in other way too.
You'll have to lower the drinking age to 16.
You'll have to make them eligible for unemployment benefits at 16 regardless how much their parents earn;
And finally, any 16 year old that commits a crime MUST be considered an adult and punished as one as well.
Also any dirty old man can exploit and have sex with 16 year old girls without penalty of law as well.
- This doesn't apply to me, I'm not interested in kids, but if you want to open this can of worms you may as well embrace it.

- I see this as a way to manipulate the voting system in line with schools 'green' 'indoctrination in teaching' agendas,
It essentially amounts to vote rigging in a quasi-legal way.

[Cont.]
But it's not as bad as what Canada are doing, euthanasing the poor elderly.
- Forcing them into a situation where they would willingly choose to die.
I'm sure it won't be long till it's policy here too knowing our kow-towing globalist loving leaders.
After all, Western leaders care more about what the other Western leaders say than anything their own citizens say.
(Unless of course they first manipulated their citizens to group-think it first)

http://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-is-canada-euthanising-the-poor/

Evidence suggests that being over 18 certainly doesn't guarantee more wisdom. Democracy means that it only takes two idiots to outvote a genius.

In any case, the Baby Boomers will soon be outnumbered by Gen X and the shift in political party support is already indicating this.

The drop in support of the main parties and the rise of the independents is inevitable and increasing as Gen X and soon the Millennials take over the ballot boxes.

There was time when many of the same arguments about intelligence, rationality and lack of life experience were used against giving the vote to women.

The minimum age to stand for election would also have to be dropped to 16.
Thus we could have MsP voting on Education before they have finished their formal education, voting on teachers’ salaries; WOW!!

Hi Issy,

'Nut Jobs' with a gun licence, now there is another reason to exclude one from voting. What about cognitive degeneration, surly some kind of ink blot test can be given to those voting old fogey types to determine their mental competence. Even a short question and answer test could be useful, like; Which way is up? If they don't know, then its out the door!

With the possibility of 16 year olds being elected to Parliament, would Parliamentry attendance over rule the truancy laws or would there be schooling arranged at on near the Parliament so that the affected member(s) could attend to Parliamentary duties, such as a division, when needed?

Of course by 17 they are much more mature.
http;///www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-08/murder-charge-laid-over-diane-miller-karawara-car-park-assault/101749536

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-08/murder-charge-laid-over-diane-miller-karawara-car-park-assault/101749536
Had another go.

Guessv the minimum age for entry into the Police would have to drop to 16 also.
Still 16 year olds are mature enough for the job.
All in all giving 16 year olds more responsibility in society is a good thing and I’m with the OP on this, after all, what do maturity and experience count for?

We're being asked - " What do maturity and experience
count for?"

There are some questions that shouldn't be asked
until a person is mature enough to appreciate the
answers. (smile).

Foxy,
So you support all my recomendations for 16 year olds to get the vote.
Welcome abord.

Is Mise,

Whatever rocks your boat! (smile).

We should add that lowering the voting age to 16 would also lower the age of consent for sexual intercourse with persons in authority.
Obviously something to be desired, particularly with some sections of the community.
It would also lower the age at which a person may be interrogated by the appropriate authorities without a responsible adult being present; but never mind at 16 one can face the best of interrogators and hold one’s own.

Just musing, but if the potential existed for a 16 year old to be elected to Parliament then the potential would also exist for the Member to become Prime Minister, there is no end of the possibilities or the ramifications.
Imagine the PM having to rush off on a sitting day to see the School Councillor, or having to postpone a Cabinet meeting because it’s HSC time.

Issy, is this carry on due to the fact they wouldn't let you vote until you were 21 or was that 42? And then there were some serious doubts!

Just a catch up; How's that mate of yours from Korea, Private Pansy, the gay guy you spent many a lonely night with in the fox hole? Just asking.

Just another question; Do you ever hear from ya old' school master Fr Fookemup? Maybe a Xmas card sometime, from his isolation cell in the maximum security prison, where he's doing time for you know what.

Seems that this discussion has come to an end, the OP has been on the OP that they make up in Queensland

FOXY, WHERE ARE YOU?

Is Mise,

I've presented all the arguments for lowering the
voting age to 16 - to broaden this debate.

However, personally I feel that we should keep what
works for us. In other words - leave things as is for
now.

Now there’s a tune change.

Is Mise,

It's now a tune change. It means that the information
provided and my own personal views may differ.

So, Foxy, are you not now personally in favour of 16 year olds going into combat?

Issy, the discussion can't end, you haven't answered my pertinent questions about Private Pansy and Fr Fookemup. I think the voting age should be raised to 1116! Then only Issy can vote! Fat Bob for President what da ya say mate, you'll be in that, AH!

Is Mise,

My good fellow. I believe we are done here.

I believe we are indeed done
Because those in favour cannot refute the logical consequences of lowering the voting age to 16.

Hi Issy,

I'm being serious for a moment;

After consideration, I cannot come up with a compelling reason to lower the compulsory voting age to 16. A better proposal would see senior students given the opportunity at school to learn something about our political system, its history and operation.

Being not so serious for a moment;

On the 'Danny Lim' thread you were on my side, on this one I'm on your side, we do have much in common, you have not completely gone over to the 'dark side' there is hope for you yet. COMRADE! big hug and kisses on both cheeks, I promote you to the rank of Commissar. BTW can you speak Russian?

If a person is not able to sign a property contract or a secure tax paying job, they should not have a right to make decisions about people who do.

Hi Jose'

The granddaughter since she was 16 has been working weekends and holidays packing internet clothing orders in a warehouse, she pays income tax. In some circumstances a 16 year old can enter into a contract, but generally its 18.

Paul,
Thanks for that.
I don’t intend to learn Russian, having learned one different writing system is enough,(Hindi) and I have no intention of visiting Russia, but off to India next year for a three month stay.
Don’t really need Hindi as Indglish is spoken over the whole country.

Hi Issy,

Yes, you're right, there is no need for you to learn Russian, well I don't think there is, only me being my jocular self. Best wishes for a safe journey, when the time comes and have a most pleasant and happy stay on the sub-continent. India a country and people of mystery and contradictions as many like to tell us. All part of the teeming mass of humanity.